|
Post by theydonorient on Oct 16, 2023 18:51:04 GMT
That is what the FA say , in other words it’s up to the rules of the EFL , and they do NOT have any rule relating to this occupancy. Their rules only say that games should continue but not what happens if they don’t. In my opinion the ref got it wrong and should have waited and restarted the match once the emergency was over.
|
|
|
Post by mujtahido on Oct 16, 2023 19:02:27 GMT
I always thought this would be the outcome we are just hitting form and we'll be at home again.Lincoln are a mid table team at best so we'll have no excuses in the return game we'll beat them again and by a bigger score
|
|
|
Post by arrgee on Oct 16, 2023 19:04:11 GMT
In other words, an abandoned match is replayed unless it isn't. This isn't a rule, it's placeholder text. The EFL could decide to not replay the game, but only in exceptional circumstances. A couple of examples are the Bradford City fire (1985) and the Manchester United relegation (1974) where a replay was either not viable or unfair. The latter case is not dissimilar to what happened when Orient played Colchester in 2017. In that case the game was "abandoned" only for the remaining minutes to be played behind closed doors. In a competition with 24 clubs, every game needs to be played to completion.
|
|
|
Post by arrgee on Oct 16, 2023 19:09:13 GMT
That is what the FA say , in other words it’s up to the rules of the EFL , and they do NOT have any rule relating to this occupancy. Their rules only say that games should continue but not what happens if they don’t. In my opinion the ref got it wrong and should have waited and restarted the match once the emergency was over. This is what the IFAB state and it applies worldwide. The referee couldn’t restart the game as the authorities (i.e. Police) wouldn’t sanction a game ending so late. Had it been a Saturday 3pm kick off in all likelihood it would have been restarted, but as it was 10:30pm and there was little prospect of recommencing at the time.
|
|
|
Post by arrgee on Oct 16, 2023 19:14:01 GMT
Probably the best we could hope for. It wouldn’t have surprised me if the EFL had made us forfeit the game. If the medical emergency hadn't had a fatal outcome I think it's quite likely we'd have got a points deduction. Unlikely as it was outside the control of the club. I suspect that Orient and EFL will review what happened and learn lessons for the future. Given the demographics of the attendees in League 1 & League 2, this is likely to happen again.
|
|
|
Post by Ramrod on Oct 16, 2023 19:45:56 GMT
If the medical emergency hadn't had a fatal outcome I think it's quite likely we'd have got a points deduction. Unlikely as it was outside the control of the club. I suspect that Orient and EFL will review what happened and learn lessons for the future. Given the demographics of the attendees in League 1 & League 2, this is likely to happen again. It WAS outside the control of the club, but since when has that made any difference to an EFL decision? In this case the EFL are morally precluded from imposing a punishment due to the fatal outcome. If someone falls down the stairs and appears injured, and people invade the pitch to get help, I think we definitely get punished as the EFL would otherwise be afraid of setting a precedent for stopping a match.
As things are, in my view we have been punished as we were leading 1-0 with just minutes remaining. Why not just replay the time left, Lincoln have got to make the trip down anyway.
|
|
|
Post by alfresco on Oct 17, 2023 9:14:14 GMT
The EFL took 4 days to come to that decision after the meeting on Thursday. Makes me think, there was some disagreement within their ranks, otherwise this would have been anounced Thursday afternoon.
Personally Im unhappy with this verdict, as we were winning with 4 mins of normal time remaining, and would probably won this game and taken 3 points, which would now put us level with Bolton Wanderers on the verge of the play offs.
If Lincoln were to win the rearranged fixture, they will have gained three points from someones death, which seems so wrong.
Unless Orient win the fixture, there's been an injustice in my opinion
|
|
|
Post by northeasto on Oct 17, 2023 9:45:03 GMT
When (and very sadly it is "when" rather than "if") this happens again at a football match, there needs to be very clear guidance given now to all parties - clubs, match officials, medical teams etc. Because something went very badly wrong on that Tuesday night. Either the guidance was wrong or ambiguous, or the match officials took wrong decisions.
The EFL have taken an age to make an easy decision (I can't really see what other decision they could have made) but they are completely silent on how to better manage a repeat scenario. Which is the only thing that REALLY matters.
In passing, I have nothing but admiration for Lincoln City. From the actions on the night of their manager and goalkeeper, to the memorial brick for Derrick. They are right up there with with Cheltenham Town post-Justin as far as I'm concerned.
|
|
|
Post by dohnut on Oct 17, 2023 10:06:14 GMT
The EFL took 4 days to come to that decision after the meeting on Thursday. Makes me think, there was some disagreement within their ranks, otherwise this would have been anounced Thursday afternoon. Personally Im unhappy with this verdict, as we were winning with 4 mins of normal time remaining, and would probably won this game and taken 3 points, which would now put us level with Bolton Wanderers on the verge of the play offs. If Lincoln were to win the rearranged fixture, they will have gained three points from someones death, which seems so wrong. Unless Orient win the fixture, there's been an injustice in my opinion Don’t forget the 10+ minutes of stoppage time so 4 mins is offering an exaggerated view. Loadsa time left. You also need to consider the numbers of goals scored late on in games. Our leading 1-0 was no certainty we would win and Lincoln could feel very hard done by not having the chance to pull the game back if the score stood. And rightly so. Late goals are very common. 4 days! I say that is a respectable time lapse given the circumstances, not wanting to be seen to be putting football first. There was no need to rush out this decision publicly at all. And of course both clubs will have been in the communication loop. A reply is exactly the right outcome.
|
|
|
Post by eca on Oct 17, 2023 10:09:11 GMT
it is critical the body that set the rules must expand the written definition of what should occur!when a match is stopped before it reaches the stage of abandonment and then abandonment as in our case.
There should be different outcomes for specific reasons ie - deliberate pitch invasion by a losing team -weather - fatal medical situation as we have just experienced. - crowd fighting encroaching the pitch - health and safety of crowd ( fire / malice action of some sort of criminal attack , etc etc
The duration of the minutes played and the score would be involved too in the final decision
As an example if a team is 3.0 up and there are only minutes left then it is not unreasonable to conclude the losing team would not of scored 3 or more
It really is absurd the rule that others have quoted from the rule book is written in the way it’s been written.
|
|
|
Post by dohnut on Oct 17, 2023 12:38:52 GMT
Lots of views on this, many quite interesting.
My take is simple. It’s near impossible to legislate for every type of eventuality in football or sport in general. As we have seen in recent times the tragic death of a fan, stabbings in Belgium, pitch invasions, player near fatality, crowd issues and so on.
Some rules need to be broad-based. Apply a general principle, which is a replay, but offer the clubs and authorities some wriggle room. Wrong to set ‘replay’ in stone. Allow sensible club people the opportunity to offer input. In the case of the Lincoln game, had both Orient and Lincoln wished it I’m sure the flexibility in the rules would have allowed the EFL to have accepted the score as the result. But if either team rejects this then a replay is the fall back position. Or if the score was 5-0 with a minute to go then the flexibility to accept this as a result would hardly be contentious.
So a big no from me for endless rules that prevent the opportunity for people to come to an appropriate outcome, people are generally sensible. Where one cannot be reasonably agreed the EFL can make a decision.
In this instance I would be hugely surprised if Lincoln took any other position than to replay the game.
|
|
|
Post by redintheface on Oct 17, 2023 13:10:36 GMT
Trying to legislate for each and every eventuality is, I believe, not the way to approach this situation as it could potentially lead to all sorts of administrative and legal challenges. The fairest solution - given that neither of the two clubs involved could be deemed to be at fault - is that which the EFL have decided upon, a full replay.
|
|
|
Post by eca on Oct 17, 2023 13:27:47 GMT
Trying to legislate for each and every eventuality is, I believe, not the way to approach this situation as it could potentially lead to all sorts of administrative and legal challenges. The fairest solution - given that neither of the two clubs involved could be deemed to be at fault - is that which the EFL have decided upon, a full replay. ]When a league make rules football clubs participating in that league have no legal opportunities or reasons challenging rules. The rules of the league are binding. The clubs agree when they are part of any league to be bound by the rules as part of their acceptance to be part of the league organisation. My suggestion is a way to document upfront in the rules which actually enhances the rules. The reason, is it is then absolutely clear of an outcome rather than the current rule which states a full match reply with a caveat of being at the discretion of a committee. I fail to understand how the current option of their decision with no accountability is superior than pre stated rules . Football has so many rules the ref and linesman manage. Having rules on deciding an outcome of a match is basically just an extension of what we all current have to tolerate in match rules during a game It’s so simple it’s beyond my understanding that option would not be considered by the powers to be One could have say all the variable match events such as I listed above and allocated to different pre set conclusions of what should occur That is so easy to summarise for all football clubs and supporters to be aware and understand.
|
|
|
Post by theydonorient on Oct 19, 2023 20:52:36 GMT
I hadn’t read this anywhere else but have just seen this on the other place.
The Euro 2024 qualifier between Belgium and Sweden declared abandoned at half-time will not be replayed, with a 1-1 result confirmed as final.
Interesting !!
|
|
|
Post by Thor on Oct 19, 2023 22:05:03 GMT
I hadn’t read this anywhere else but have just seen this on the other place. The Euro 2024 qualifier between Belgium and Sweden declared abandoned at half-time will not be replayed, with a 1-1 result confirmed as final. Interesting !! I thought the same! I guess the UEFA laws are different ever so slightly to the EFL laws.
|
|
|
Post by arrgee on Oct 19, 2023 22:49:29 GMT
I hadn’t read this anywhere else but have just seen this on the other place. The Euro 2024 qualifier between Belgium and Sweden declared abandoned at half-time will not be replayed, with a 1-1 result confirmed as final. Interesting !! Mainly because the qualification won’t be impacted by replaying the game.
|
|
|
Post by kbola on Oct 20, 2023 4:56:00 GMT
I hadn’t read this anywhere else but have just seen this on the other place. The Euro 2024 qualifier between Belgium and Sweden declared abandoned at half-time will not be replayed, with a 1-1 result confirmed as final. Interesting !! I saw that but not really the same circumstances. One is a terrorist attack/ double murder The other someone's death from natural causes.
|
|
|
Post by theydonorient on Oct 20, 2023 9:28:16 GMT
I hadn’t read this anywhere else but have just seen this on the other place. The Euro 2024 qualifier between Belgium and Sweden declared abandoned at half-time will not be replayed, with a 1-1 result confirmed as final. Interesting !! I saw that but not really the same circumstances. One is a terrorist attack/ double murder The other someone's death from natural causes. Agree the circumstances are different , terrorist attack v natural death but they are also different in that that ours was in the ground and actually affected the play and the other wasn’t even in the ground and didn’t actually affect the game itself.
|
|
|
Post by dohnut on Oct 20, 2023 10:35:23 GMT
I hadn’t read this anywhere else but have just seen this on the other place. The Euro 2024 qualifier between Belgium and Sweden declared abandoned at half-time will not be replayed, with a 1-1 result confirmed as final. Interesting !! Mainly because the qualification won’t be impacted by replaying the game. Exactly. The situation is very different. It highlights the value of not having rules set in stone and allowing the authorities the opportunity to look at each case individually before coming to a decision. In both cases in my opinion the regulatory bodies have got it 100% correct.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2023 11:04:38 GMT
Mainly because the qualification won’t be impacted by replaying the game. Exactly. The situation is very different. It highlights the value of not having rules set in stone and allowing the authorities the opportunity to look at each case individually before coming to a decision. In both cases in my opinion the regulatory bodies have got it 100% correct. I think your opinion is totally irrelevant.
|
|