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Post by eca on Apr 26, 2024 22:12:56 GMT
You focus on the negative way it could go . I am British and seem to always be negative in my risk assessments - however in this case of agents I am following the positive approach of Australians which I encounter everyday. I genuinely believe the average footballer would be better served by discussing their employment opportunities and terms direct. Using an expensive mouthpiece to replicate my instructions is not the way I like. Dealing direct one can establish first hand attributes of the future employer of loyalty transparency etc - that works both ways for the employer. There are many other advantages I could list too. My focus is not on employing staff, but contractors. Different beasts. Players are not members of staff as such and not trying to be unkind, many perhaps don’t have the skills nor the experience to know what they are entitled to or how far to push. Negotiation is a real skill. Agents Do not replicate instructions, far from it. An agent is or should be a skilled negotiator able to determine what his/her client can expect from their employer and make sure the employer too is very clear on expectations. Getting the right deal, win/win. And in my experience they generally do compared to people who go it alone. I employed contractors for over 20 years and formed my opinions based on that. Not negative at all. In fact I can see the use of agents at times positive. Not talking about how much they cost of course. That may well be different in football. But we all have different experiences which is fair enough. What worked for me in my industry may not apply elsewhere. I appreciate that. In my life employment agents are third parties who take a commission from the employer for me (the prospective candidate if I am selected). As a professional surveyor employed in UK / NZ / Australia / Nigeria I had a mix bag of effective movement from agents- some fine, some excellent, some poor, but that is very different from the football industry that worked for decades with no agents. Since they muscled their way into the food chain all I read is how they get paid an exceptional sum of money for what they do. Yeah, take a premier player it must be really heart-breaking sitting there wondering if I can get 250k a week to play up North or if I move to Spain where the sun is nice, I can get $ 200k a week then watching an agent getting a % of that expenditure the club have paid my current club expenditure-appalling lump of money that could of been allocated to more productive means. Down in league 1 and 2 the sums are more normal but if I was the parent of any player, I be with him advising him assuming I was asked rather than an agent. I am sure my son and I have enough savvy to get the appropriate best deal available with no fees going out to my new club or existing club. In fact, both parties could share the money the agent would take. Sorry for me no agent period. if I need any assistance, we will call the PFA for advice. At the worst if I was a premier player in those wages, I would employ a contract Lawyer, pay them direct their fee to review the contract wording - better than any agent in my head and far more economic and legally sound. |
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Post by dohnut on Apr 27, 2024 9:46:11 GMT
All good points. I accept there are people more than able to manage negotiations themselves. But for many their skills and experience don’t extend that far.
I’m my case my contract was 30 pages (double line text so 15 pages) and I was an employee. Complex and potentially restrictive regarding future jobs due the company confidential information I was privy to. For me to sign without appropriate advice unwise. And I was used to negotiating. But as they say the devil is in the detail.
The point being that contracts are also legal documents and I have no idea if players or indeed managers have the skills to fully appreciate the details. Easier to let those who do this stuff every day to deal with it. But if people are happy to go it alone then I understand.
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Post by eca on Apr 27, 2024 10:02:32 GMT
All good points. I accept there are people more than able to manage negotiations themselves. But for many their skills and experience don’t extend that far. I’m my case my contract was 30 pages (double line text so 15 pages) and I was an employee. Complex and potentially restrictive regarding future jobs due the company confidential information I was privy to. For me to sign without appropriate advice unwise. And I was used to negotiating. But as they say the devil is in the detail. The point being that contracts are also legal documents and I have no idea if players or indeed managers have the skills to fully appreciate the details. Easier to let those who do this stuff every day to deal with it. But if people are happy to go it alone then I understand. 1. " But for many experience don't extend that far". - I am sure the PFA have an internal consultant to advise if the footballer or father are incapable of reading an offer of employment. 2. I am as majority of adults would be aware that an employment contract is a legal document. Even with basic schooling in the Uk it's not unreasonable to believe any person at the age of 16 plus would be not capable of reading a contract and seeking any clarifications. It not that hard. I am sure the PFA have a standard contract which clubs all use as a basis it will not be written in Latin either. Most children from the age of 14 or thereabouts have good mental capacity to read and comprehend and " fully appreciate the details" of an offer of employment - even if they are in the lowest class at a Secondary Modern school. |
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Post by dohnut on Apr 27, 2024 16:50:47 GMT
All good points. I accept there are people more than able to manage negotiations themselves. But for many their skills and experience don’t extend that far. I’m my case my contract was 30 pages (double line text so 15 pages) and I was an employee. Complex and potentially restrictive regarding future jobs due the company confidential information I was privy to. For me to sign without appropriate advice unwise. And I was used to negotiating. But as they say the devil is in the detail. The point being that contracts are also legal documents and I have no idea if players or indeed managers have the skills to fully appreciate the details. Easier to let those who do this stuff every day to deal with it. But if people are happy to go it alone then I understand. 1. " But for many experience don't extend that far". - I am sure the PFA have an internal consultant to advise if the footballer or father are incapable of reading an offer of employment. 2. I am as majority of adults would be aware that an employment contract is a legal document. Even with basic schooling in the Uk it's not unreasonable to believe any person at the age of 16 plus would be not capable of reading a contract and seeking any clarifications. It not that hard. I am sure the PFA have a standard contract which clubs all use as a basis it will not be written in Latin either. Most children from the age of 14 or thereabouts have good mental capacity to read and comprehend and " fully appreciate the details" of an offer of employment - even if they are in the lowest class at a Secondary Modern school. One other thing I picked up from Matt Harold today is the role agents play in helping players find clubs. But I sense this interesting discussion is going in a different direction. I respect your views but they differ from mine. Happy to leave it there. |
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Post by viastratford on Apr 28, 2024 9:04:24 GMT
Good interview,he spoke clearly about how we will improve the matchday experience.Good to hear the fanbase age is coming down.The newcomers will become what us olduns are,lifelong supporters.I always shake the hand of new patrons tell them welcome to Orient and make them feel this is the club to support. That’s a really nice thing to do Redshank. Respect! When Viastratford Jr and myself started following the Os, now many years ago, he, (now a grown adult, was about 12 at the time) we felt similarly welcomed by the people who sat around us and who became our friends, of which we have since made many more over the years. It’s the brilliant thing about this club that makes being a supporter, I think, so much more special than being simply a number following a bigger club. |
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