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Post by dennisrofe on Oct 4, 2024 11:49:01 GMT
Clough I believe said football is a simple game Bill Shankly Quotes Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and of making yourself available to receive a pass. It is terribly simple. |
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Post by redshank on Oct 4, 2024 11:56:00 GMT
Clough I believe said football is a simple game When you see a goal scored and after all the huff and puff of failed attempts we see how easy it is,but only for that moment. |
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Post by dennisrofe on Oct 4, 2024 11:56:45 GMT
Unfortunately I think he is trying too hard and too technical for a team with very 3-4 th division players . He is a bang on average manager and his record shows it . Of course RW will be OK with us but there are better managers in our division with similar or even smaller budgets ,doing just as well if not better . I think it’s harsh to describe him as bang average. Two promotions is quick time shows he has ability, achieving more than some others considered good enough to move up, Slade for example won nothing. But unproven at league 1 level, yet. Such things need to be earned and he is young. I agree with the too technical comment. When Davies took over I always felt his ideas were better than the players ability to match. JE took the same struggling bunch and made them champions. His style more suited to their ability. Ah, magic formula. My question is similar to yours but maybe kinder, are we demanding a too high a physical level than they can consistently achieve. My opinion, a resounding yes. Evidence - we fade badly in games and follow up a decent hours football with flat performances. Without sufficient quality in depth we just cannot cope with two games a week. They damn well should be, fit young men. But they can’t. We simply don’t have that extra few percent in depth quality that supports our work ethic. Mental fatigue for our better players rather than physical fatigue. Carrying a too heavy burden. Too many passengers along for the ride. Or not even starting the ride. If I was working my nuts off, I’d get pretty hacked off to see others just not contributing at all. Very good comment and much the same thoughts as myself regarding Justin's way of getting the best out of the players that he had available to him. |
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Post by redshank on Oct 4, 2024 12:03:15 GMT
Clough I believe said football is a simple game Bill Shankly Quotes Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and of making yourself available to receive a pass. It is terribly simple. It does not mention those working their nuts off by fair means or foul to take the ball off them or get in the way of those passes.Add to that the decisions again right or wrong of the match officials. A looks good on paper or a computer way of playing works well until the team steps onto the pitch.I think it is very difficult to win a football match with so many fit players and the great pitches we now have.Admit when a goal is scored it can look so simple. |
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Post by redshank on Oct 4, 2024 12:07:17 GMT
I think it’s harsh to describe him as bang average. Two promotions is quick time shows he has ability, achieving more than some others considered good enough to move up, Slade for example won nothing. But unproven at league 1 level, yet. Such things need to be earned and he is young. I agree with the too technical comment. When Davies took over I always felt his ideas were better than the players ability to match. JE took the same struggling bunch and made them champions. His style more suited to their ability. Ah, magic formula. My question is similar to yours but maybe kinder, are we demanding a too high a physical level than they can consistently achieve. My opinion, a resounding yes. Evidence - we fade badly in games and follow up a decent hours football with flat performances. Without sufficient quality in depth we just cannot cope with two games a week. They damn well should be, fit young men. But they can’t. We simply don’t have that extra few percent in depth quality that supports our work ethic. Mental fatigue for our better players rather than physical fatigue. Carrying a too heavy burden. Too many passengers along for the ride. Or not even starting the ride. If I was working my nuts off, I’d get pretty hacked off to see others just not contributing at all. Very good comment and much the same thoughts as myself regarding Justin's way of getting the best out of the players that he had available to him. Amazing how Justin got the O's promoted with the team we had,all worked as hard as they could for him and the O's in general.RW is learning on the hoof as we rise in the division and it bodes well for us. |
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Post by redintheface on Oct 4, 2024 12:23:18 GMT
Edinburgh had a very straightforward and sound approach. At its most rudimentary level he developed his tactics / style of play to accommodate the players he had available to him. Wellens - again at its most basic level- appears to want players to conform or adapt to a style of play that he dictates. Very simplistic analysis I know and there’s clearly more to it than just that but fundamentally that’s the difference imho.
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Post by dennisrofe on Oct 4, 2024 12:31:12 GMT
Edinburgh had a very straightforward and sound approach. At its most rudimentary level he developed his tactics / style of play to accommodate the players he had available to him. Wellens - again at its most basic level- appears to want players to conform or adapt to a style of play that he dictates. Very simplistic analysis I know and there’s clearly more to it than just that but fundamentally that’s the difference imho. Having actually having spoken to Justin at the pitchside and briefly talked about tactics, his ideas were easy to understand and thus quite easy for the players to translate into action. Richie though is IMO is somewhat over complicated and I should imagine far from being easy for the players to put his plans into action. |
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Post by dennisrofe on Oct 4, 2024 12:33:21 GMT
Bill Shankly Quotes Football is a simple game based on the giving and taking of passes, of controlling the ball and of making yourself available to receive a pass. It is terribly simple. It does not mention those working their nuts off by fair means or foul to take the ball off them or get in the way of those passes.Add to that the decisions again right or wrong of the match officials. A looks good on paper or a computer way of playing works well until the team steps onto the pitch.I think it is very difficult to win a football match with so many fit players and the great pitches we now have.Admit when a goal is scored it can look so simple. You have to remember that Bill Shankly had a good sense of humour and came out with many witty quotes and sayings. |
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Post by redintheface on Oct 4, 2024 12:33:39 GMT
My question is similar to yours but maybe kinder, are we demanding a too high a physical level than they can consistently achieve. My opinion, a resounding yes. Evidence - we fade badly in games and follow up a decent hours football with flat performances. Without sufficient quality in depth we just cannot cope with two games a week. They damn well should be, fit young men. But they can’t. This is a good point. It’s noticeable that even at this stage - barely 20% of games played - there have been several examples of RW using words like “ jaded”, tired” , “leggy” to describe both performances and individuals. If it is purely a physical issue, then it really shouldn’t be happening at this stage in the season. If there’s more to it than that, as you alluded to, then it’s important that is addressed and quickly. |
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Post by redintheface on Oct 4, 2024 12:39:31 GMT
Edinburgh had a very straightforward and sound approach. At its most rudimentary level he developed his tactics / style of play to accommodate the players he had available to him. Wellens - again at its most basic level- appears to want players to conform or adapt to a style of play that he dictates. Very simplistic analysis I know and there’s clearly more to it than just that but fundamentally that’s the difference imho. Having actually having spoken to Justin at the pitchside and briefly talked about tactics, his ideas were easy to understand and thus quite easy for the players to translate into action. Richie though is IMO is somewhat over complicated and I should imagine far from being easy for the players to put his plans into action. Yes I think it’s fair to say RW has a more sophisticated and perhaps innovative tactical approach than Edinburgh did and that may well be more difficult for players to take on board and/ or execute. Ultimately we all know that results will be the final arbiter as to what’s successful or not and I’m sure Richie appreciates that as well as anyone. |
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Post by dohnut on Oct 4, 2024 13:10:31 GMT
My question is similar to yours but maybe kinder, are we demanding a too high a physical level than they can consistently achieve. My opinion, a resounding yes. Evidence - we fade badly in games and follow up a decent hours football with flat performances. Without sufficient quality in depth we just cannot cope with two games a week. They damn well should be, fit young men. But they can’t. This is a good point. It’s noticeable that even at this stage - barely 20% of games played - there have been several examples of RW using words like “ jaded”, tired” , “leggy” to describe both performances and individuals. If it is purely a physical issue, then it really shouldn’t be happening at this stage in the season. If there’s more to it than that, as you alluded to, then it’s important that is addressed and quickly. Don’t believe at this stage, physical fatigue is a major factor. athletes tire. But recovery should be quick. Mental fatigue a whole different matter. If your mind is in the wrong place the body won’t compensate. If the mind is in the right place even a tired person will keep going. true for all of us, just not athletes. RW works overtime on their mental approach, confidence if you like. But that mantra wears thin. It’s great to bust a gut but in my view the whole squad needs to share that work ethic. But and I’m speaking personally here, when you are busting a gut to achieve it’s fecking galling and demotivating to see colleagues not pitching in or screwing up, wasting all that effort. That eventually takes its toll. Our team are as fit as anyone in league 1 I’m sure. But is the work ethic there throughout the squad? The desire, the passion. Not from what I see. My guess why Moncs was shown the door, others too. Have we just brought in more? |
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Post by redshank on Oct 4, 2024 15:22:19 GMT
This is a good point. It’s noticeable that even at this stage - barely 20% of games played - there have been several examples of RW using words like “ jaded”, tired” , “leggy” to describe both performances and individuals. If it is purely a physical issue, then it really shouldn’t be happening at this stage in the season. If there’s more to it than that, as you alluded to, then it’s important that is addressed and quickly. Don’t believe at this stage, physical fatigue is a major factor. athletes tire. But recovery should be quick. Mental fatigue a whole different matter. If your mind is in the wrong place the body won’t compensate. If the mind is in the right place even a tired person will keep going. true for all of us, just not athletes. RW works overtime on their mental approach, confidence if you like. But that mantra wears thin. It’s great to bust a gut but in my view the whole squad needs to share that work ethic. But and I’m speaking personally here, when you are busting a gut to achieve it’s fecking galling and demotivating to see colleagues not pitching in or screwing up, wasting all that effort. That eventually takes its toll. Our team are as fit as anyone in league 1 I’m sure. But is the work ethic there throughout the squad? The desire, the passion. Not from what I see. My guess why Moncs was shown the door, others too. Have we just brought in more? That is why I used to prefer working on my own,earning their wages through my hard work and their 10-2pm style of working.On my own I earned far more,much harder with the heavy loads and the long drive home.Tou had to do the job to see what a tough job of work it was.Construction workers and tradesman deserve all the money they earn.I have no time whatsoever for slackers and early retirees.I did the full 50;1960 2010. |
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Post by mayland0s on Oct 4, 2024 15:54:33 GMT
Unfortunately I think he is trying too hard and too technical for a team with very 3-4 th division players . He is a bang on average manager and his record shows it . Of course RW will be OK with us but there are better managers in our division with similar or even smaller budgets ,doing just as well if not better . I think it’s harsh to describe him as bang average. Two promotions is quick time shows he has ability, achieving more than some others considered good enough to move up, Slade for example won nothing. But unproven at league 1 level, yet. Such things need to be earned and he is young. I agree with the too technical comment. When Davies took over I always felt his ideas were better than the players ability to match. JE took the same struggling bunch and made them champions. His style more suited to their ability. Ah, magic formula. My question is similar to yours but maybe kinder, are we demanding a too high a physical level than they can consistently achieve. My opinion, a resounding yes. Evidence - we fade badly in games and follow up a decent hours football with flat performances. Without sufficient quality in depth we just cannot cope with two games a week. They damn well should be, fit young men. But they can’t. We simply don’t have that extra few percent in depth quality that supports our work ethic. Mental fatigue for our better players rather than physical fatigue. Carrying a too heavy burden. Too many passengers along for the ride. Or not even starting the ride. If I was working my nuts off, I’d get pretty hacked off to see others just not contributing at all. Whilst I agree with most of what you’ve posted I stand by my “bang on average” remark . Sure RW has had a couple of promotions but some of those teams that he has managed really haven’t done very well . I also think he is a one trick pony , ie always likes to play with one striker and that striker has to run his socks off . We will never score many goals playing like that and that is what I go to football for . I suppose I long for the the days of Lisbie, Mooney , Coxy . Not a marquee signing in sight for a while now ,even Dan A is playing out of position now ,how long will it be before he doesn’t make the squad ! I find a lot of RW s football boring ,with little excitement at the end of the move . But overall he probably is OK for us but not that special . |
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