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Post by Fisch on May 6, 2021 19:43:00 GMT
An attempt to continue in the vein of the "Review" threads, so no gut feelings, no second guessing T & T and strictly no mention of DoF.
Jobi took over and immediately faced Crawley away with ten men. We saw a committed team of warriers fight their way to a deserved 0-0. We have not seen that again.
Ross played with a 4-3-3 and attempted to play out from the back, it probably cost him his job. Jobi watered it down and added some hoof which paid off for a short while. Once it stopped working, the team looked less organised than Ross's teams. DJ has continued to be isolated, so much so, he was dropped. The Widdowson or Brophy situation remains unresolved. The Ling Akinola choice remains undecided. Happe continues to make poor mistakes yet looks a first team fixture. Jobi has not moved the team on from what Ross was doing.
Jobi is a Leyton Orient hero and I have nothing but admiration for the man. However, when looking for positive indicators to appoint him at first team manager, I don't see enough. I hope there are a number of good things that are not visible to me.
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Post by vinnyh on May 6, 2021 20:01:31 GMT
Jobi will get the job, unless he decides it isn’t for him. There are plenty of excuses to convince the Orient board that he’s still the right man for the job.
Here’s a few I can think of;
Jobi inherited the squad, He stopped the rot, Jobi is likely to attract better players, Jobi is already on the books, The board may be apprehensive about bringing in someone from outside in case it doesn’t work out (again), Play offs were not reached owing to the distraction of contract talks (or lack of). With three different coaches overseeing the squad this season, the board may deem that the players aren’t good enough, which will be addressed.
What is of concern is whether Jobi thinks 4-3-3 is the ideal formation and has not worked because the players haven’t done what has been asked of them.
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Post by redintheface on May 6, 2021 20:32:07 GMT
Jobi will get the job, unless he decides it isn’t for him. There are plenty of excuses to convince the Orient board that he’s still the right man for the job. Here’s a few I can think of; Jobi inherited the squad, He stopped the rot, Jobi is likely to attract better players, Jobi is already on the books, The board may be apprehensive about bringing in someone from outside in case it doesn’t work out (again), Play offs were not reached owing to the distraction of contract talks (or lack of). With three different coaches overseeing the squad this season, the board may deem that the players aren’t good enough, which will be addressed. What is of concern is whether Jobi thinks 4-3-3 is the ideal formation and has not worked because the players haven’t done what has been asked of them. Just one question Vinny - do you believe the “ excuses” you list justify McAnuff’s appointment ?
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Post by Ramrod on May 6, 2021 21:01:43 GMT
"He (Jobi) stopped the rot".
Oh no, he didn't! Or maybe he did ... at first.
For the Board, appointing Jobi must have looked almost a no-brainer after the first seven or so games. I'd suggest it doesn't look that way anymore. Jobi may well still get the job, but it's no longer an "obvious" option.
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Post by jimbo1983 on May 6, 2021 21:18:05 GMT
The more I think about it. The more I don't think he is getting the job. If he was getting it they surely would of announced it by now. I don't know any reason for not announcing it. Before they could of argued that they didn't announce it as they didn't want to disrupt an obvious playoff push. Now that's all over there is no reason in my mind not to announce it unless it's not him. He also looks dejected as if he knows he is not getting it and is just an interim. Unless of course they are trying to announce it after a victory so that its an easier pill to swallow and he just isn't winning.
Also why wait when really this time could of been better signing players and doing contracts. I have a feeling that someone is lined up already and is in the background working on recruitment etc and as soon as the season is over they are announced. Just a hunch.
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Post by MungO on May 6, 2021 21:45:28 GMT
Jobi took over and immediately faced Crawley away with ten men. We saw a committed team of warriers fight their way to a deserved 0-0. We have not seen that again. That was under Ross wasn't it? Jobi's first game was Grimsby away. Besides all that I don't think Jobi will get the job. Mainly for the reasons Jimbo has outlined above. Why not announce it now? I also think that Jobi has now fallen below the 1.5 points per game ratio that Kent deemed a minimum requirement. Even Ross was okay outside the playoffs until he drastically dropped below the 1.5ppg level. Haven't my stats to hand but I think a win on Saturday puts Jobi back on the 1.5ppg. But it's Salford. Away. They have something to play for. We've been dire and have nothing to play for. Also going against Jobi is Kent's talk the other day about an outsider now being allowed to bring in their own staff. And let us not forget how bad we were in the games that actually mattered. Cambridge who were practically giving us a win, and then that dire dire Southend game (Southend hadn't scored in 7 home matches, 26th January). And Carlisle too who we just have up against. I think if we could have got a bit of pride in the last 5 or 6 games of the season it would have been Jobi's job. But we've just petered out into nothing.
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Post by osoldest on May 6, 2021 21:56:24 GMT
Jobi is nailed on, not because he deserves it but because he is held in such high esteem by our owners.
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Post by Ramrod on May 6, 2021 22:05:52 GMT
So what it comes down to is high esteem v declining points ratio.
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Post by redintheface on May 7, 2021 4:56:41 GMT
So what it comes down to is high esteem v declining points ratio. With a large dose of sentiment thrown in for good measure.
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Post by Fisch on May 7, 2021 7:12:44 GMT
So what it comes down to is high esteem v declining points ratio. With a large dose of sentiment thrown in for good measure. If I understand your point, sentiment is the concern. Jobi is an impressive and erudite character and he has that background of overcoming the Bechetti experience. Sentimentally, we'd all love to see him leading us to success. The cold hard evidence however is far less convincing and it is difficult to see much of it pointing to good reasons why Jobi could be regarded as a good bet. Quite the opposite in fact.
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Post by vinnyh on May 7, 2021 8:40:03 GMT
Jobi will get the job, unless he decides it isn’t for him. There are plenty of excuses to convince the Orient board that he’s still the right man for the job. Here’s a few I can think of; Jobi inherited the squad, He stopped the rot, Jobi is likely to attract better players, Jobi is already on the books, The board may be apprehensive about bringing in someone from outside in case it doesn’t work out (again), Play offs were not reached owing to the distraction of contract talks (or lack of). With three different coaches overseeing the squad this season, the board may deem that the players aren’t good enough, which will be addressed. What is of concern is whether Jobi thinks 4-3-3 is the ideal formation and has not worked because the players haven’t done what has been asked of them. Just one question Vinny - do you believe the “ excuses” you list justify McAnuff’s appointment ? Not for me, the fact that he's not shown any ambition by changing tactics/formation gives me nothing to believe it will be any different next season.
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Post by buffalobill on May 7, 2021 10:48:02 GMT
I think he'll get the job because he has inherited a squad built by Ross (and to an extent Justin), that doesn't have enough quality and consistency in it, to finish any higher than mid table.
When teams have good seasons, they tend to have a settled defence, but apart from Vigs, these are the number of starts from the squad defenders.
Akinola 30(2) mixture of RB and CB
Brophy (43) mainly LB, occasionally LM
Coulson 19(1)
Happe 37(2)
Ling 26(3)
Thomas 1(0)
Thompson 6(0)
Turley 15(3)
Widdowson 20(5)
I am amazed that we have kept the number of clean sheets that we have, and can only put that down to Vigs and the cover provided by the defensive midfielders. No team can be successful without a settled defence and we haven't had it.
The players, with one or two exceptions, are not those that League One clubs are likely to want, so Jobi took on the role with a defence that was not good enough to be promoted and I think deep down the owners will know that.
They will be disappointed that he couldn't motivate the players to reach a higher level, but realistic enough to know they are buying into a manager with a future and a vision of his own.
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Post by redshank on May 7, 2021 11:47:49 GMT
Maybe that is why John Mackie is on the podcast.
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Post by disoriented on May 7, 2021 12:51:59 GMT
I think he'll get the job because he has inherited a squad built by Ross (and to an extent Justin), that doesn't have enough quality and consistency in it, to finish any higher than mid table. When teams have good seasons, they tend to have a settled defence, but apart from Vigs, these are the number of starts from the squad defenders. Akinola 30(2) mixture of RB and CB Brophy (43) mainly LB, occasionally LM Coulson 19(1) Happe 37(2) Ling 26(3) Thomas 1(0) Thompson 6(0) Turley 15(3) Widdowson 20(5) I am amazed that we have kept the number of clean sheets that we have, and can only put that down to Vigs and the cover provided by the defensive midfielders. No team can be successful without a settled defence and we haven't had it. The players, with one or two exceptions, are not those that League One clubs are likely to want, so Jobi took on the role with a defence that was not good enough to be promoted and I think deep down the owners will know that. They will be disappointed that he couldn't motivate the players to reach a higher level, but realistic enough to know they are buying into a manager with a future and a vision of his own. He deserves the chance to build his OWN squad. Ling, take note.
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Post by dohnut on May 7, 2021 13:14:04 GMT
I was pretty sure he would get the job. Now I’m not so sure.
I can see valid arguments for him to get the job and equally for the club to being in someone else. A massively tough call.
I’m slightly coming down the side of him getting a shot for the following reasons:-
He inherited a squad on a downward slope and gave us a little bit of playoff hope, but that faded There is no guarantee that a new, experienced manager, would succeed any more than Jobi. Jobi needs to get the chance with his own players and style of play rather than the ingrained negativity of the current crop, that was never going to change. He is by all accounts a good respected leader with positive ideas I see his long association with the club as a positive I suspect he can be ruthless when making tough decisions. He has sufficient maturity to deal with Ling. He will be a Board appointment. An outside appointment will be Lings and likely to be a little subservient as a result.
I also take heart from teams like Exeter and Cambridge who are both doing OK and both have appointed from within. So no reason why it cannot work.
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Post by buffalobill on May 7, 2021 13:38:07 GMT
Why he might not get the job?
New investors want a proven manager with a strong track record to be given the job.
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Post by Ramrod on May 7, 2021 13:53:35 GMT
Why he might not get the job? New investors want a proven manager with a strong track record to be given the job. Maybe not only new investors. It's conceivable that Kent too might prefer this as a means of maximising the chances of a positive return.
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Post by redintheface on May 7, 2021 14:11:23 GMT
With a large dose of sentiment thrown in for good measure. If I understand your point, sentiment is the concern. Jobi is an impressive and erudite character and he has that background of overcoming the Bechetti experience. Sentimentally, we'd all love to see him leading us to success. The cold hard evidence however is far less convincing and it is difficult to see much of it pointing to good reasons why Jobi could be regarded as a good bet. Quite the opposite in fact. I know it will seem I have a real downer on McAnuff ( I honestly don’t!) but personally I would rephrase your comment about him ‘ overcoming the Becchetti experience” . Survived it yes but overcome it no imho. His first spell at the club was a dismal failure ( with good reason) and the general consensus when he left for Stevenage was that he along with a number of other “ big names” brought in during the Clown regime had let the club down badly. I totally take on board that McAnuff is an articulate and well informed individual with a wealth of playing experience who fits the “ model” that the owners appear to be seeking of a younger coach in tune with the modern day game and its demands. Unlike some I don’t necessarily see his long association with the club as a positive in as much as I think that may mitigate against him making the very tough decisions on players/ coaches that are probably required. Obviously whichever way the Board decides to act it (a) won’t please everyone and (b) has no guarantee of success. It still seems to me however that a newcomer with a fresh perspective and no “ baggage” affords the club a better opportunity to succeed than attempting another internal makeover.👍
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Post by Fisch on May 7, 2021 15:22:21 GMT
I think I agree with all of that redintheface. I take your point about "overcame" rather than "survived".
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Post by dohnut on May 7, 2021 15:34:04 GMT
Why he might not get the job? New investors want a proven manager with a strong track record to be given the job. Maybe not only new investors. It's conceivable that Kent too might prefer this as a means of maximising the chances of a positive return. I think that is a definite possibility. I doubt Teague was impressed with Fletcher, nor Ross. Perhaps he wants an experienced pair of hands in charge, like JE was for example. I know it’s a decision that will be a tough one. Perhaps an experienced guy with Jobi as assistant? Who knows.
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