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Post by alfresco on May 22, 2021 9:27:31 GMT
...sadly Portsmouth fans still think they are a big club that should be walking, the league ... If you think that, and as you've posted it I guess you must do, then it proves you know absolutely nothing about the club. The absolute vast majority of Pompey supporters know what we are and that's a L1 club in every way, but compared to the alternative we were presented with eight years ago we're more than happy to be at the level we're at, being able to watch a Pompey team that still exists play in the crumbling relic we call home.
The vast majority of Pompey supporters were also overjoyed to see the back of Jackett when the board finally sacked him in March, especially as it was a year overdue at the very least. I'm sure a leopard won't change his spots so prepare yourself for a tactically clueless, dispassionate robot to manage your club for however long he gets away with it. Be prepared for your players to have brief daily training sessions, have fitness routines left for the players to sort out (which will backfire after Christmas each season as their lack of stamina begins to show) and then sit back and watch the awful, route one football and any player that shows even a hint of class being bombed out. Oh, and defintely be ready for the jaw-dropping substitutions and hope and pray you never find yourselves 3-1 up at home to nine men before Kenny demonstrates a masterclass in changing the team around to pull a draw out of the hat.
Also be ready for the weird and wonderful signings - I'll grant you he signed Lowe, Curtis and McGillivray for us, but balance that out with Hawkins, Morris, Bolton, Downing, and some guy named Louis Dennis (the next big thing from the National League apparently) although I'm not sure what happened to him. There'll be players signed you'll never see grace the pitch and players you'll see but wish had never graced the pitch.
I've got to hold my hand up here and say I have a soft spot for the O's as I used to have family living in Preston Road back in the 70s, and spent time watching the occasional game in the days of Hepolette, Grealish and Laurie Cunningham, so when I read the news that Jackett had been appointed I really felt for you. For your sake I hope Pompey was the blip in his managerial career and he takes you on to bigger and better things, but I just don't see it. Christ, you've suffered enough over recent decades and deserve so much better.
In nearly fifty years of supporting Pompey I've seen some bad managers, and I mean some real shockers, but Jackett is the only one who made me give up my season ticket and take up gardening with the wife instead. He really is that bad.
This is a little worrying, as this poster from Pompey, seems a decent sort of guy, not a 'troublemaker' on a wind up Obviously, we will have to see for ourselves, but my mind goes back a few years, after we signed Steve Davis, and a few Crewe fans warned us about him, and by and large they were right. at least Kenny is on a one year contract, so if this gentleman is right, we wont have to suffer long. I hope Kenny does the biz for us, because his record of getting clubs promoted is pretty good
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Post by sidmouth on May 22, 2021 9:51:58 GMT
I think we should have listened to the Crewe fans. Mind you, they are usually silent, like Dario Gradi about Barry Bennell.
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Post by MungO on May 22, 2021 10:10:14 GMT
...sadly Portsmouth fans still think they are a big club that should be walking, the league ... If you think that, and as you've posted it I guess you must do, then it proves you know absolutely nothing about the club. The absolute vast majority of Pompey supporters know what we are and that's a L1 club in every way, but compared to the alternative we were presented with eight years ago we're more than happy to be at the level we're at, being able to watch a Pompey team that still exists play in the crumbling relic we call home. The vast majority of Pompey supporters were also overjoyed to see the back of Jackett when the board finally sacked him in March, especially as it was a year overdue at the very least. I'm sure a leopard won't change his spots so prepare yourself for a tactically clueless, dispassionate robot to manage your club for however long he gets away with it. Be prepared for your players to have brief daily training sessions, have fitness routines left for the players to sort out (which will backfire after Christmas each season as their lack of stamina begins to show) and then sit back and watch the awful, route one football and any player that shows even a hint of class being bombed out. Oh, and defintely be ready for the jaw-dropping substitutions and hope and pray you never find yourselves 3-1 up at home to nine men before Kenny demonstrates a masterclass in changing the team around to pull a draw out of the hat.
Also be ready for the weird and wonderful signings - I'll grant you he signed Lowe, Curtis and McGillivray for us, but balance that out with Hawkins, Morris, Bolton, Downing, and some guy named Louis Dennis (the next big thing from the National League apparently) although I'm not sure what happened to him. There'll be players signed you'll never see grace the pitch and players you'll see but wish had never graced the pitch. I've got to hold my hand up here and say I have a soft spot for the O's as I used to have family living in Preston Road back in the 70s, and spent time watching the occasional game in the days of Hepolette, Grealish and Laurie Cunningham, so when I read the news that Jackett had been appointed I really felt for you. For your sake I hope Pompey was the blip in his managerial career and he takes you on to bigger and better things, but I just don't see it. Christ, you've suffered enough over recent decades and deserve so much better. In nearly fifty years of supporting Pompey I've seen some bad managers, and I mean some real shockers, but Jackett is the only one who made me give up my season ticket and take up gardening with the wife instead. He really is that bad.
Welcome and thanks for posting. For all you've posted above is that the fact was Jackett had a 50% win record with your lot. So it couldn't have been all bad? The last two years we have had pretty much all you've said too. Tactical naivety, bizarre signings, strange substitutions, a lack of a plan B, etc. From an outsider looking in to Pompey we struggle with the idea you kick someone out with a 50% win record regardless of the football played. Ultimately it's all about winning games and if you win half of them you're always in with a shout.
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Post by osoldguy on May 22, 2021 10:31:38 GMT
Is it just me, or does anyone else not give a toss what Pompey fans think? If the Cowley Brothers perform as they did at Huddersfield then watch this space. Pompey fans will be bemoaning the brothers if results do not meet expectations. Backroom staff have left if you read reports. The Cowleys in that case will be bringing in their selections in various Departments, so will the fans be patient or expect instant success, I couldn't care less. What I do know imo is the Board has pushed the boat out to get a manager that has seen most of it, been round the block as a player and manager. I hope he brings in his own choice of backroom staff, sets up his own training regime which I am sure he will. If there is little money left in the budget, I hope with his contacts in the game he can unearth, cajole and breath new life back into players that have been given Free transfers but still want to play and with agents that don't ask rediculous contract expectations financially.
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Post by dohnut on May 22, 2021 10:59:42 GMT
In a results driven business, any manager who achieves a 50.7% win rate in four years at the club and a 45% win rate over near 900 games at decent levels knows what he is doing. I don’t really care about the opinions of their armchair experts. Those numbers are extremely good. Those numbers are proof of ability. As are the successes on his CV. They are the facts, the proof. Good enough for me.
That he didn’t achieve what Pompey fans wanted is probably more down to their expectations as a once big, FA cup winning ex, Premier League club fighting back after a hard decade wanting to return to former glories. Being overshadowed by Southampton. Fair enough.
I don’t know if he will be successful at Orient. What I do know is the club have appointed someone who will give us a shot.
out of interest his numbers and successes stack up pretty well when compared to the Crowley Brothers and his win rate, ok over a small time period at Pompey, is slightly better.
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Post by blackcountrypompey on May 22, 2021 12:24:19 GMT
That he didn’t achieve what Pompey fans wanted is probably more down to their expectations as a once big, FA cup winning ex, Premier League club fighting back after a hard decade wanting to return to former glories. Being overshadowed by Southampton. Fair enough. Overshadowed by a Southampton side that's won two trophies in their existence - yeah, we worry about that in the same way you'd worry about West Ham If you base an argument purely on statistics then it can go whatever way you want it to but what statistics don't show in this case is the dire, mundane football we had to witness for four years. It was mind-numbing beyond belief and we'd play a few good games, then Professor Jackett would pull a masterstroke by leaving out the in form players and replacing them with lumpen footed plodders he'd signed. An example being a couple of seasons ago in the play-offs against Oxford he drops Tom Naylor, our captain who was in the best form of his time with us, and replaces him with Bryn Morris, a player who hadn't played a game for over a year after a series of injuries and who was to be honest pretty dreadful when he was fit. We lost the match and Jackett's reasoning - Naylor's a winter player. Sorry, what?! That's what you've just signed up to. By all means throw the 'Pompey still think they're a big club' and 'Pompey's supporters are too big for their boots' slurs at us, we're used to that and really don't care. Of course we've got some idiot supporters but then name me a club that hasn't (apart from Orient, obviously ), but we've got reason for such widespread dislike of Jackett and it's nothing to do with him taking us back to where everyone else thinks we think we should be (we don't by the way). It's 100% about what we've had to watch during his time in charge, the changes made to a team whenever it shows signs of performing well and providing entertaining football, and his inability to get players to perform to a consistent standard. You'd imagine that a manager with a career win rate of around 50% would be feted for top jobs when they become available, I mean Eddie Howe is the golden child with a worse record. But then ask yourself why he was never considered and why the supporters of Swansea and Wolves couldn't wait to see the back of him, too, despite a similar win rate. We know the Cowleys aren't the new Messiah and that Danny really does love the sound of his own voice, but the reason we have taken to them is because at last they've brought some passion to the games and our underachieving bunch of plodders showed just a glimmer of the ability we knew they had. Longer term who knows what'll happen, but if they have a win rate in the low 40s and we're entertained and see some commitment on the pitch then that'll do for us. Alan Ball had a win rate of 43% and 29% across his two spells with us (and he managed and played for that lot up the M27), but you won't hear a bad word said about the man. Why? Because we played fantastic football under him and I'd take that over Jackett, his 50% and the awful, dull football he served up for longer than he should.
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Post by redshank on May 22, 2021 12:50:45 GMT
To get 50.7% results,you have to have players that can give you that percentage of results.Season to season players can be better or worse.Wilko is an example of this,Ross certainly got better from him this season and at times Wilko looked very useful.
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Post by dohnut on May 22, 2021 13:16:48 GMT
That he didn’t achieve what Pompey fans wanted is probably more down to their expectations as a once big, FA cup winning ex, Premier League club fighting back after a hard decade wanting to return to former glories. Being overshadowed by Southampton. Fair enough. Overshadowed by a Southampton side that's won two trophies in their existence - yeah, we worry about that in the same way you'd worry about West Ham If you base an argument purely on statistics then it can go whatever way you want it to but what statistics don't show in this case is the dire, mundane football we had to witness for four years. It was mind-numbing beyond belief and we'd play a few good games, then Professor Jackett would pull a masterstroke by leaving out the in form players and replacing them with lumpen footed plodders he'd signed. An example being a couple of seasons ago in the play-offs against Oxford he drops Tom Naylor, our captain who was in the best form of his time with us, and replaces him with Bryn Morris, a player who hadn't played a game for over a year after a series of injuries and who was to be honest pretty dreadful when he was fit. We lost the match and Jackett's reasoning - Naylor's a winter player. Sorry, what?! That's what you've just signed up to. By all means throw the 'Pompey still think they're a big club' and 'Pompey's supporters are too big for their boots' slurs at us, we're used to that and really don't care. Of course we've got some idiot supporters but then name me a club that hasn't (apart from Orient, obviously ), but we've got reason for such widespread dislike of Jackett and it's nothing to do with him taking us back to where everyone else thinks we think we should be (we don't by the way). It's 100% about what we've had to watch during his time in charge, the changes made to a team whenever it shows signs of performing well and providing entertaining football, and his inability to get players to perform to a consistent standard. You'd imagine that a manager with a career win rate of around 50% would be feted for top jobs when they become available, I mean Eddie Howe is the golden child with a worse record. But then ask yourself why he was never considered and why the supporters of Swansea and Wolves couldn't wait to see the back of him, too, despite a similar win rate. We know the Cowleys aren't the new Messiah and that Danny really does love the sound of his own voice, but the reason we have taken to them is because at last they've brought some passion to the games and our underachieving bunch of plodders showed just a glimmer of the ability we knew they had. Longer term who knows what'll happen, but if they have a win rate in the low 40s and we're entertained and see some commitment on the pitch then that'll do for us. Alan Ball had a win rate of 43% and 29% across his two spells with us (and he managed and played for that lot up the M27), but you won't hear a bad word said about the man. Why? Because we played fantastic football under him and I'd take that over Jackett, his 50% and the awful, dull football he served up for longer than he should. I wouldn’t dream of aiming slurs at Pompey and their fans, far from it. Would add that this forum is not about slurs, but openly discussing football. But I do recognise that Pompey have had a solid history at a higher level than many clubs. There will always be numbers amongst the fan base who believe their club should be playing at a higher level. For what it’s worth I see Pompey that way too. I see Portsmouth as a Championship level club and more. Fantastic support. But this debate has highlighted different views of fans. I’d prefer to slug out a 1-0 win than lose a cracker 4-3. Give me results over entertainment any day. I’ll take my pleasure looking at the league table. So if KJ delivers wins and gives us the chance of a promotion I’ll be less concerned if many of those wins came from less attractive football. I have no desire to support entertaining losers. Winning and entertainment is a rare holy grail. But I’m happy to start with results. So I guess we just see things differently. Peace
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Post by blackcountrypompey on May 22, 2021 13:34:58 GMT
dohnut, I wasn't aiming that comment at you, it's something we get from so many clubs who only remember us from the PL years and the cup win and conveniently forget the many, many years of mind-numbing mid-table obscurity that went before it. Seriously, until we beat Cardiff at Wembley I always thought winning trophies was what other clubs did!
And I honestly hope it works out for you with Jackett at the helm. Despite everything I believe he truly did his best for Pompey, worked hard and was always a complete and utter gent, but it was just what he put onto the pitch every week and what now appears to be the lack of attention in the build up to games. And you'll hopefully forgive me for wanting to see some exciting football from Pompey after the drudgery of the last four years. The old squad is moving out, we've no idea who's replacing them but it just feels fresh, or at least as fresh as Fratton Park ever could feel.
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Post by redintheface on May 22, 2021 14:13:53 GMT
Interesting viewpoint but not one I will lose any sleep over tbh. We’ll all have the opportunity to make our mind up about Jackett over the next twelve months. Maybe some Pompey fans don’t rate him - that’s fair enough. I find it hard to imagine that many of their previous managers will have had a better win/ loss ratio over the course of 3 and a bit years than Jackett did! If he replicated that at the O’s I doubt too many of our fans will be complaining!
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omygawd
Trap 3
Living in hope
Posts: 83
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Post by omygawd on May 22, 2021 14:23:45 GMT
I will judge him on his record with us and nothing else. At the moment his appointment shows an ambition and desire from the Board that I didn’t think I would see, there are no guarantees in life but I think KJ gives us a better chance of success than I have seen since Justin was with us. KJ’s win record is impressive and we need higher profile and more experienced leadership than we have had, the 1 year rolling contract gives both sides the break clause they need if things don’t work out.
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Post by posho on May 22, 2021 14:24:14 GMT
Of course Jackett was at Rotherham for only 39 days and 5 games. He resigned,does the pompey fan know why. Other than that was at clubs for a lot longer including 6 years at Millwall and 4 years at PORTSMOUTH. A long time whilst being a failure. We had a respected Orient player who then played under KJ at Millwall have nothing but good things to say about him in a podcast last night. I know who I prefer to believe. How many failures has Mourinho had and numpty clubs still pay him millions
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leo59
Raymond The Roller
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Post by leo59 on May 22, 2021 14:25:58 GMT
We all see things differently but I can tell you jacket had 6 years at millwall and 5 of them were pretty good he made more good signings than bad, we were on a real downward spiral when he took over and looking like certainties to go down to league 2 , he brought around a fairly swift improvement stayed up and a year later we were losing play off finalists . Got over the disappointment and got back there the following season and never looked like missing out , he did seem to hit a ceiling but that was in the top half of the championship with a club that would only spend button's on players , I'm sure you'd be more than happy if you were back in the championship the chairman and many wall fans didn't want him to go and apart from Rotherham he's left every club he's ever managed further up the league , the football might not be pretty but is it ever in leagues 1 and 2 , but he's almost certain to improve you , and wish you all the best
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Post by dennisrofe on May 22, 2021 16:10:31 GMT
...sadly Portsmouth fans still think they are a big club that should be walking, the league ... Also be ready for the weird and wonderful signings - I'll grant you he signed Lowe, Curtis and McGillivray for us, but balance that out with Hawkins, Morris, Bolton, Downing, and some guy named Louis Dennis (the next big thing from the National League apparently) although I'm not sure what happened to him. There'll be players signed you'll never see grace the pitch and players you'll see but wish had never graced the pitch.
As to what happened to Louis Dennis, well read on about how he left Portsmouth and joined Leyton Orient. Louis Dennis was an ok player for the Os, he got his fair share of injuries and never really established himself as an automatic first team choice in his time at the Os. Dennis will be out of contract and released from the club at the end of this season. ''On 1 August 2019, Dennis joined League Two side Leyton Orient for an undisclosed fee. He scored his first goal for Orient in a 2-2 draw with Exeter City on 14 September 2019'' en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Dennis
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Post by Top of the JES on May 22, 2021 16:42:50 GMT
I can fully understand Pompey fans being frustrated four years and Jacket not working out for them.
But I firmly believe that some managers suit different clubs and different Cultures. Pompey are a big club, massive fan base full of expectation and passion but it didn't work for them under Jacket,it happens. But the man has three promotions and two cup wins and an overall win rate of 47% behind him. If you speak to fans of Swansea, Wolves and Millwall you would probably get a different story. I remember when the Justin joined us weeks after being sacked by Northampton their fans coming onto our message boards telling us how bad he was, but in his words he "got us" and we "got him" manager and club that were a perfect match for each other and we miss him to this day. Time will tell with KJ but given the lack of "pedigree" in some of our recent managerial appointments and the bland and boring football before and after Justin I will take him every day of the week.
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Post by disoriented on May 22, 2021 18:09:11 GMT
To get 50.7% results,you have to have players that can give you that percentage of results.Season to season players can be better or worse.Wilko is an example of this,Ross certainly got better from him this season and at times Wilko looked very useful. Clearly the Pompey fella believes a 50.8% record is the benchmark. Fair play to him - he is clearly a mathematician’s mathematician.
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Post by dohnut on May 22, 2021 20:11:42 GMT
I can fully understand Pompey fans being frustrated four years and Jacket not working out for them. But I firmly believe that some managers suit different clubs and different Cultures. Pompey are a big club, massive fan base full of expectation and passion but it didn't work for them under Jacket,it happens. But the man has three promotions and two cup wins and an overall win rate of 47% behind him. If you speak to fans of Swansea, Wolves and Millwall you would probably get a different story. I remember when the Justin joined us weeks after being sacked by Northampton their fans coming onto our message boards telling us how bad he was, but in his words he "got us" and we "got him" manager and club that were a perfect match for each other and we miss him to this day. Time will tell with KJ but given the lack of "pedigree" in some of our recent managerial appointments and the bland and boring football before and after Justin I will take him every day of the week. Lot of truth in getting the right manager at the right time. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. We were hugely fortunate with JE, right for us at that time. God bless JE. What a great loss to so many. I have always hoped we would employ someone to build upon what he did for our club. Certainly not waste his legacy. His legacy has not been wasted but maybe we haven’t built on it as much as I’d hoped. Maybe KJ is the man to do it.
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Post by Howling Mad on May 22, 2021 20:28:27 GMT
Well he's got a one-year rolling contract, so we will have to see how it goes.
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Post by disoriented on May 23, 2021 5:27:43 GMT
Well he's got a one-year rolling contract, so we will have to see how it goes. Just like Alan Ball. He used to have a rolling contract.
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Post by Howling Mad on May 23, 2021 7:24:05 GMT
Well he's got a one-year rolling contract, so we will have to see how it goes. Just like Alan Ball. He used to have a rolling contract. Welcome back fella.
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