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Post by redintheface on Oct 3, 2021 15:34:17 GMT
Happe was no better or worse than anyone else today. Ogie had a difficult time as well and Beckles got caught out on a number of occasions. Unfortunately - like after the Harrogate defeat- there are always overreactions when we lose. Saturday was very disappointing because if the lateness of the goals, but you have to look a bit wider than one man being the cause I think. There has been no over-reaction to the defeat. None. Huge disappointment at how it happened but no over-reaction. In fact I doubt many are really surprised that we lost. Always going to be a tough game against an in-form team away from home. Listen to the Pratley interview. Was KJ over-reacting at half time when he gave the team a rollicking? Speaking your mind is not over-reaction. clubs have MOTM awards. Why? Because each game has the opportunity acknowledge one player who is outstanding. Likewise in every game there is the opportunity for one player to have a mare. This is not over-reaction but a simple fact. In both cases it’s a team game. But it is possible for players to have a great game or a poor game. Yesterday Woods had a good game, Happe a poor one. That’s just the way it was. Next week the roles could be reversed and I’m sure opinions will reflect that. No witch hunt, no scapegoating. Sorry but I have to disagree with you about an “ over reaction” regarding the defeat yesterday. If you are thinking that my comment relates to your statement in another of your posts that yesterday was the worst you had seen in a long time ( or words to that effect) it’s a case of “ if the cap fits , wear it”. In actual fact my comment related to some of the more venomous posts on the “other” Board and not to you or KJ / Pratley ( tbh I still can’t quite work out how you thought it might !)😄. I , for one am perfectly content if KJ decides it’s necessary to dig out any player in the dressing room . He’s paid to manage and that’s part and parcel of it. If, as you put it, roles are reversed next week I hope that you are right about opinions reflecting that. I suspect that some may not be as open minded and objective as you claim to be and still have entrenched views on players based upon their own personal bias.🤔👍
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Post by redintheface on Oct 3, 2021 15:39:20 GMT
I'm considering the possibility that Beckles is starting to try to cover for others' lapses and is screwing up his own performnces rather than just take care of his own obligations. Football is a team game and as a senior pro Beckles I’m sure is both willing and able to support his younger, less experienced ( or talented) colleagues.👍
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Post by dohnut on Oct 3, 2021 18:43:25 GMT
Defence this season vs last season? Last season our defence was based around possession. If we had the ball, the opposition couldn’t score. And to be fair, many times it worked. But at times like this we need to remind ourselves just how mind-numbingly boring football was back then, despite some decent players and DJ’s early form, without which we would have been in deep trouble. Endless passing across the back followed by a Happe long ball to Wilkinson. Or LV to Wilkinson. We were so easy to play against. The opposition managers wet dream. But player for player we are so much better now. James vs Ling. Woods vs Widdowson, Turley vs Beckles. Anybody going to suggest we have not improved. Didn’t think so. Add to that McNeil vs Akinola who has been a big plus and Ogie coming on a bundle. What’s not to like. We have wing backs who create, wow, that’s not been the case for a while. Yesterday was just a bad day the office, as was Harrogate. Was a bad day for Happe. It happens, maybe he is still carrying an injury and with two players out, he chipped in when not 100%. On the plus side we scored two goals against a tight defence. What matters now is the next away league game. We need to get back to winning ways. Otherwise it will be three league games without a win. dohnut wrote '' Add to that McNeil vs Akinola who has been a big plus''
Who is McNeil ? Surely you meant Alex Mitchell ,the young defender that Os have on loan from Millwall ? Of course I meant Alex Mitchell.
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Post by ostralia on Oct 4, 2021 2:18:39 GMT
Don’t forgot he was playing on his ‘wrong’ side on the right of the back 3 on Saturday. Yes both of the late goals came down his side, but we had plenty of other players back none of them picked up the players that scored. Collective blame I feel.
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Post by dennisrofe on Oct 4, 2021 7:43:16 GMT
Don’t forgot he was playing on his ‘wrong’ side on the right of the back 3 on Saturday. Yes both of the late goals came down his side, but we had plenty of other players back none of them picked up the players that scored. Collective blame I feel. Yes I think that what you have written is fair comment, plus not sure that Happe has fully recovered from his recent injury which may be hampering his movement. Whatever, it seems Happe has moved down the pecking order and could well be 4th choice behind Beckles, Mitchell and Ogie.
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Post by harlowo on Oct 4, 2021 10:59:31 GMT
I wasn’t at the game Saturday but all the footage I’ve seen Happe was on the left side of the back 3 which is his favoured side.
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Post by dohnut on Oct 4, 2021 12:20:56 GMT
Just for balance, in terms of ratings per games played, independent ratings, Happe scores just below Beckles and above Ogie. Comes in 6th highest in the ratings for Orient players Based on 7 appearances.
So Saturday was not his best game but he was playing out of position and perhaps still carrying a knock. Poor game - yes. Mitigating circumstances - yes.
If he drops below others in the pecking order it’s unlikely to be on performance and more to do with the type of player he is and how that fits into the KJ style of play.. He is very different to Ogie and Mitchell but different don’t mean worse.
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Post by redintheface on Oct 4, 2021 12:23:59 GMT
Don’t forgot he was playing on his ‘wrong’ side on the right of the back 3 on Saturday. Yes both of the late goals came down his side, but we had plenty of other players back none of them picked up the players that scored. Collective blame I feel. Yes I think that what you have written is fair comment, plus not sure that Happe has fully recovered from his recent injury which may be hampering his movement. Whatever, it seems Happe has moved down the pecking order and could well be 4th choice behind Beckles, Mitchell and Ogie. May well be fourth choice in due course but I would suggest behind Mitchell, Beckles & Thompson ( when fit).👍
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Post by dohnut on Oct 4, 2021 12:40:13 GMT
I'm considering the possibility that Beckles is starting to try to cover for others' lapses and is screwing up his own performnces rather than just take care of his own obligations. Football is a team game and as a senior pro Beckles I’m sure is both willing and able to support his younger, less experienced ( or talented) colleagues.👍 I’m sure he is, but the issue with that is sometimes it can affect the quality of your own game when you get drawn out of position trying to do so.
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Post by Fisch on Oct 4, 2021 12:44:52 GMT
Football is a team game and as a senior pro Beckles I’m sure is both willing and able to support his younger, less experienced ( or talented) colleagues.👍 I’m sure he is, but the issue with that is sometimes it can affect the quality of your own game when you get drawn out of position trying to do so. It seems the tendency for our defenders to be in no-mans'-land may be from the fear of leaving someone un-marked so they try to be available to challenge a number of options. A possible case of the young lion chasing all manner of prey and ending up hungry?
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Post by dohnut on Oct 4, 2021 13:27:57 GMT
I’m sure he is, but the issue with that is sometimes it can affect the quality of your own game when you get drawn out of position trying to do so. It seems the tendency for our defenders to be in no-mans'-land may be from the fear of leaving someone un-marked so they try to be available to challenge a number of options. A possible case of the young lion chasing all manner of prey and ending up hungry? I suspect you are right. Defenders in two minds. Covering multiple options, then like Saturday not covering tight enough, for all 3. Maybe defenders marking zones rather than players. Don’t know.
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Post by posho on Oct 4, 2021 13:37:07 GMT
What about a defender actually being in charge. It used to be the goalkeeper as he had the whole of the play in front of him. Looking at a still of the game, we had 8 players in the area and yet Vale had a completely unmarked runner coming in to score. Surely the major player facing the action would be able to see this happening and tell his defence to cover.
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Post by dohnut on Oct 4, 2021 13:58:39 GMT
What about a defender actually being in charge. It used to be the goalkeeper as he had the whole of the play in front of him. Looking at a still of the game, we had 8 players in the area and yet Vale had a completely unmarked runner coming in to score. Surely the major player facing the action would be able to see this happening and tell his defence to cover. Interesting point. Who in the defence is taking stock and organising things. With Ogie and Happe I doubt that role falls to them. interestingly, Mitchell, or the little Ive seen, is quite gobby and authoritative for a youngster. Not shy when telling others what to do. Maybe we missed him more than we realised. Maybe why he has been brought in.
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Post by posho on Oct 4, 2021 14:13:41 GMT
Of course none of us likes our team to lose, but we know it will happen and I suspect quite often. It's the manner of the defeat that's upsetting especially where we were in the table with the high profile management team in charge. In fact with the remaining 9/10 minutes to play we were still leading after 5 of them, so it appeared as though we were managing it well. OK, concede for a draw was still possible. A loss is not on. If KJ wasn't angered by that, then ?
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Post by dohnut on Oct 4, 2021 14:21:26 GMT
Of course none of us likes our team to lose, but we know it will happen and I suspect quite often. It's the manner of the defeat that's upsetting especially where we were in the table with the high profile management team in charge. In fact with the remaining 9/10 minutes to play we were still leading after 5 of them, so it appeared as though we were managing it well. OK, concede for a draw was still possible. A loss is not on. If KJ wasn't angered by that, then ? Pratley mentioned the team got a justified rollicking at half time. No reason to believe full time would have been any different. I’ve absolutely no doubt that behind locked doors, KJ vents his annoyance. But I prefer it that way. In private. In public KJ offers considered opinions on the game.
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Post by posho on Oct 4, 2021 14:24:26 GMT
Agree
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Post by redintheface on Oct 4, 2021 14:57:11 GMT
Football is a team game and as a senior pro Beckles I’m sure is both willing and able to support his younger, less experienced ( or talented) colleagues.👍 I’m sure he is, but the issue with that is sometimes it can affect the quality of your own game when you get drawn out of position trying to do so. I’m sure that you would both want and expect Omar to put the team first and above himself🤔
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Post by mayland0s on Oct 4, 2021 14:57:21 GMT
I'm considering the possibility that Beckles is starting to try to cover for others' lapses and is screwing up his own performnces rather than just take care of his own obligations. I make you right fisch and I think that point came over in both Prattley’s and KJ ‘s interviews . The veterans are a bit frustrated with the youngsters and are having to compromise their own jobs on the pitch . I’m not too sure how long they can keep it up .
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Post by dohnut on Oct 4, 2021 15:28:27 GMT
I’m sure he is, but the issue with that is sometimes it can affect the quality of your own game when you get drawn out of position trying to do so. I’m sure that you would both want and expect Omar to put the team first and above himself🤔 Absolutely, the team win or the team lose. But it must be frustrating if your own game suffers as a consequence.
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Post by harlowo on Oct 4, 2021 16:30:13 GMT
How was he playing out of position on Saturday?
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