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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2024 12:12:04 GMT
I started writing this in the Posh Fred in response to the perennial chat about needing a new striker. I typed so much I figured it might as well be its own thread.
TL;DR: sort of, but we can also improve massively without breaking our wage structure.
Attack
We have the 4th worst xG vs actual goals scored in the league (-0.25 per 90). If we scored equal to our xG, that would be another 10 goals so far.
That would mean a better GF than Stevenage and Northampton, but no other teams in the top half. It would still be on par with a typical midtable finish compared with recent League 1 seasons.
We're 9th in the xG table so I suspect a better striker than Ruel would buy us a rung or two up the ladder. But unless we improve in other areas too, we'd really need a 25+ goal a season striker to get promoted. That means someone who can create chances for themselves and others as well as consistently putting them away, because we're not creating enough either.
We all know we can't afford that player. Especially since this is Orient so they'll just get injured immediately 🤷
But Agyei can be close to being that player if we can keep him fit. We've seen what he can do and he massively outscored his xG in league 2. Ruel is a good backup to have and is improving year on year. He's better off the bench anyway.
As for chances, Graham can provide them, again, if we can keep him fit. But let's not forget that we've also got a lot of exciting young players who will only get better. (If we can keep them fit 😅)
We need to do whatever it takes to have Galbraith playing further up the pitch, especially if Sanders can't play week in week out. A new full back could be a better investment than a new striker. In fact, if I was Richie, I'd play Sweeney in all remaining games this season and see if he can develop some consistency. Could save us a few quid.
Defence
Interestingly we were also 9th in xG last season too. The big differences being a) we were consistently scoring 0.01 xG bangers, and b) Lawrence Vigouroux.
Our xGA vs actual goals conceded (-0.37 per 90) was far and away the best in the league. This season it is not. At first glance, -0.02 per 90 suggests Brynn is doing OK for a young lad, but of the teams above us, only Peterborough and Oxford have worse - both teams that outperform their xG.
We're actually 12th in xGA vs AGC, which isn't good enough. Brynn isn't good enough.
Am I still in the minority here? The stats suggest he's an average shot-stopper and he doesn't appear to be especially good at anything else.
I'd be very disappointed if we extended his loan. We need to invest in a good keeper. Fortunately, that's a much cheaper position to fill than a good striker.
Experience
In short, we need more of it. We've got some good young players but we've lacked maturity at times this season, with Prats unable to play a full 90. On top of all the stupid yellows, game management is also poor compared to last season. 23% of our goals conceded have come just before or just after half time, and 17% have come at the death.
We need more leadership on the pitch. When Prats isn't playing, it's all left to Beckles. Of our other senior players (late 20s and above), none really strike me as leaders: Moncs, James, Hunt, Pigott, Agyei. Maybe Graham could be, but not when he's crocked.
Conclusion
Even if we can technically afford a top striker, it feels a bit like putting all of our eggs in one basket. I think the squad can be better improved with both a good keeper and (depending on Richie's faith in Sweeney) full back. If those players have leadership qualities too, perfect. We can probably get both for the price of a top striker (not that I'd turn one down of course 😁).
Oh, and it barely needs mentioning, but we've gotta hold onto Idris too. Would anyone let him go in order to fund a new striker? That makes 3 areas of the pitch where I think money can be better spent than a number 9.
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Post by mujtahido on Apr 4, 2024 12:27:12 GMT
Excellent post i believe Dan Agyei could tear this league to pieces if he stays fit.Strangely before coming to us he was hardly ever injured.From what I've seen of him he can play anywhere along the front line and if Graham and another winger are fit Agyei could easily be an out and out striker and score 20 plus goals next season
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Post by redshank on Apr 4, 2024 12:34:21 GMT
Every team wants a striker,we need one for sure,we have had some good ones and some duds both taking wages.What we can afford to take a chance on is probably the way to go.A recognised striker is possibly out of ours and their pay league.Very difficult for any FL clubs. I also think we need a goalkeeper,having been spoilt with Vigs,I suppose anyone would be considered second best.But we signed him so goalkeepers like him are available. I may be spirited to think that we could try one of our outfield players as an out an out striker,maybe Theo as he is a big boy who can look after himself and can beat one or two players and gives his all. Overall I am satisfied with our recent signings with exceptions of course and with a 20 goal a season striker would have surely made the play offs,if not even better.
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Post by redshank on Apr 4, 2024 12:38:01 GMT
Excellent post i believe Dan Agyei could tear this league to pieces if he stays fit.Strangely before coming to us he was hardly ever injured.From what I've seen of him he can play anywhere along the front line and if Graham and another winger are fit Agyei could easily be an out and out striker and score 20 plus goals next season Whats more he gets the crowd going,we can be a bit sleepy at times but when we get going we can make a hell of a noise that pushes the team to performances better than they give with a quiet crowd.
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Post by Ramrod on Apr 4, 2024 13:37:04 GMT
As regards whether we need a striker. Clearly we do if we're looking to go up. Unfortunately it's not enough to expect Agyei to do the job because he won't be fit for 46 games. In fact, realistically, at any one time at least one of our strike force will be absent So we need at least one more quality front-like striker, plus effective backup in the form of 1-2 useful youngsters. We're getting there, but it takes time.
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Post by redshank on Apr 4, 2024 14:18:33 GMT
How many games a season would you expect Agyei to play,and with that in mind did we sign him knowing he would play only a bit part in the season.Hopefully it was just one of those seasons for him and the summer months will put this seasons woes behind him.A fit and raring to go team with Agyei playing a prominent part would bring great joy to the O's supporters because at his best he is our star player and an utter delight to watch play.
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Post by redintheface on Apr 4, 2024 17:40:47 GMT
If we are to have a decent crack at the play offs I reckon we need to score at least another 12-15 goals in addition to what we have managed this season. An additional striker would therefore seem essential- ideally together with a midfielder who can potentially chime in with 8 to 10 goals too.
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Post by Ramrod on Apr 4, 2024 17:42:56 GMT
How many games a season would you expect Agyei to play,and with that in mind did we sign him knowing he would play only a bit part in the season.Hopefully it was just one of those seasons for him and the summer months will put this seasons woes behind him.A fit and raring to go team with Agyei playing a prominent part would bring great joy to the O's supporters because at his best he is our star player and an utter delight to watch play. I wouldn't expect to get more than, say, 36 games out of any striker.
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Post by mayland0s on Apr 4, 2024 18:03:43 GMT
I started writing this in the Posh Fred in response to the perennial chat about needing a new striker. I typed so much I figured it might as well be its own thread. TL;DR: sort of, but we can also improve massively without breaking our wage structure. AttackWe have the 4th worst xG vs actual goals scored in the league (-0.25 per 90). If we scored equal to our xG, that would be another 10 goals so far. That would mean a better GF than Stevenage and Northampton, but no other teams in the top half. It would still be on par with a typical midtable finish compared with recent League 1 seasons. We're 9th in the xG table so I suspect a better striker than Ruel would buy us a rung or two up the ladder. But unless we improve in other areas too, we'd really need a 25+ goal a season striker to get promoted. That means someone who can create chances for themselves and others as well as consistently putting them away, because we're not creating enough either. We all know we can't afford that player. Especially since this is Orient so they'll just get injured immediately 🤷 But Agyei can be close to being that player if we can keep him fit. We've seen what he can do and he massively outscored his xG in league 2. Ruel is a good backup to have and is improving year on year. He's better off the bench anyway. As for chances, Graham can provide them, again, if we can keep him fit. But let's not forget that we've also got a lot of exciting young players who will only get better. (If we can keep them fit 😅) We need to do whatever it takes to have Galbraith playing further up the pitch, especially if Sanders can't play week in week out. A new full back could be a better investment than a new striker. In fact, if I was Richie, I'd play Sweeney in all remaining games this season and see if he can develop some consistency. Could save us a few quid. DefenceInterestingly we were also 9th in xG last season too. The big differences being a) we were consistently scoring 0.01 xG bangers, and b) Lawrence Vigouroux. Our xGA vs actual goals conceded (-0.37 per 90) was far and away the best in the league. This season it is not. At first glance, -0.02 per 90 suggests Brynn is doing OK for a young lad, but of the teams above us, only Peterborough and Oxford have worse - both teams that outperform their xG. We're actually 12th in xGA vs AGC, which isn't good enough. Brynn isn't good enough. Am I still in the minority here? The stats suggest he's an average shot-stopper and he doesn't appear to be especially good at anything else. I'd be very disappointed if we extended his loan. We need to invest in a good keeper. Fortunately, that's a much cheaper position to fill than a good striker. ExperienceIn short, we need more of it. We've got some good young players but we've lacked maturity at times this season, with Prats unable to play a full 90. On top of all the stupid yellows, game management is also poor compared to last season. 23% of our goals conceded have come just before or just after half time, and 17% have come at the death. We need more leadership on the pitch. When Prats isn't playing, it's all left to Beckles. Of our other senior players (late 20s and above), none really strike me as leaders: Moncs, James, Hunt, Pigott, Agyei. Maybe Graham could be, but not when he's crocked. ConclusionEven if we can technically afford a top striker, it feels a bit like putting all of our eggs in one basket. I think the squad can be better improved with both a good keeper and (depending on Richie's faith in Sweeney) full back. If those players have leadership qualities too, perfect. We can probably get both for the price of a top striker (not that I'd turn one down of course 😁). Oh, and it barely needs mentioning, but we've gotta hold onto Idris too. Would anyone let him go in order to fund a new striker? That makes 3 areas of the pitch where I think money can be better spent than a number 9. We should not be going flat out for a striker ,what we should be doing is getting goals from other team members . No where enough goals fro MF ,in that respect El Miz and all the others should have got their share . Even the defence has been next to hopeless with their lack of goals . We are crap with set pieces and that must improve . Perhaps it is the way RW sets his team up ,he seems to be quite happy with one goal wins which everyone knows can be tricky . To just get another striker is not the be all and end all ,who knows Dan might just end up on the treatment table more than the pitch .
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2024 18:35:46 GMT
If we are to have a decent crack at the play offs I reckon we need to score at least another 12-15 goals in addition to what we have managed this season. An additional striker would therefore seem essential- ideally together with a midfielder who can potentially chime in with 8 to 10 goals too. The point is more that we don't need to break our wage structure on a 20-goal-a-season striker if we can find cheaper gains elsewhere. We don't necessarily need to score 12-15 more goals, just increase our goal difference by 12-15. I think upgrading in goal, relieving Galbraith from having to cover at fullback, and keeping Idris will get us at least most of the way there without betting the house on a single player. If Agyei and Graham can play 30+ games then that's us over the line.
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Post by redintheface on Apr 4, 2024 19:13:51 GMT
If we are to have a decent crack at the play offs I reckon we need to score at least another 12-15 goals in addition to what we have managed this season. An additional striker would therefore seem essential- ideally together with a midfielder who can potentially chime in with 8 to 10 goals too. The point is more that we don't need to break our wage structure on a 20-goal-a-season striker if we can find cheaper gains elsewhere. We don't necessarily need to score 12-15 more goals, just increase our goal difference by 12-15. I think upgrading in goal, relieving Galbraith from having to cover at fullback, and keeping Idris will get us at least most of the way there without betting the house on a single player. If Agyei and Graham can play 30+ games then that's us over the line. I agree we don’t have to break our wage structure but if we can unearth someone who can get 18-20 goals it will be a huge help. Increasing our goal difference by 12-15 will be a huge ask if you are expecting the defence to effectively do it all. The team with the tightest defence in League 1 is Lincoln (34 conceded) but even they have scored 60 ( 15 more than us). Unless there is an goalscoring threat it just doesn’t work I’m afraid.
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Post by mujtahido on Apr 4, 2024 19:16:59 GMT
For what it's worth I've not seen a better league one forward than Agyei admitted we've not seen a great deal from him but against Bolton he was up against probably one of the best defenders in the league and he came out on top and scored lots of teams would want him
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Post by redintheface on Apr 4, 2024 19:24:19 GMT
For what it's worth I've not seen a better league one forward than Agyei admitted we've not seen a great deal from him but against Bolton he was up against probably one of the best defenders in the league and he came out on top and scored lots of teams would want him Again just my view but I think you may be looking through rose tinted glasses . Agyei is good and should only improve given an injury free spell but there are superior strikers to him in League 1 at the moment imho. Peterbough/ Pompey and Bolton all have better options I would say.
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Post by blip the thrOttle on Apr 4, 2024 19:34:18 GMT
I don't think we're that far away from being a top 6 league one side, below is a chart showing the Comparison with league averages, if we hadn't had so many key players missing for large chunks of the season these stats might have read very differently, I trust in RW to recruit the right players in the summer transfer window, I have also included the goals by time segment chart and the scoring ratio of the teams currently occupying the Automatic Promotion places and the play off position's. Leyton Orient goals statistics indicate an average of 1.10 goals scored per game so far this season, which is lower than the average number of 1.29 goals scored by each team per match this season in the league, all teams combined in League One. Lincoln City goals statistics indicate an average of 1.46 goals scored per game so far this season, which is higher than the average number of 1.29 goals scored by each team per match this season in the league, all teams combined in League One. Barnsley goals statistics indicate an average of 1.83 goals scored per game so far this season, which is higher than the average number of 1.29 goals scored by each team per match this season in the league, all teams combined in League One. Peterborough United goals statistics indicate an average of 1.93 goals scored per game so far this season, which is higher than the average number of 1.29 goals scored by each team per match this season in the league, all teams combined in League One. Bolton Wanderers goals statistics indicate an average of 1.85 goals scored per game so far this season, which is higher than the average number of 1.29 goals scored by each team per match this season in the league, all teams combined in League One. Derby County goals statistics indicate an average of 1.71 goals scored per game so far this season, which is higher than the average number of 1.29 goals scored by each team per match this season in the league, all teams combined in League One. Portsmouth goals statistics indicate an average of 1.66 goals scored per game so far this season, which is higher than the average number of 1.29 goals scored by each team per match this season in the league, all teams combined in League One. post picturewww.soccerstats.com/
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Post by Thor on Apr 4, 2024 19:55:44 GMT
Really good thread this, with some good comments.
We badly need a centre forward regardless of Dan A being able to play there. Whilst he hasn't played we just don't have enough quality to be able to step up and replace him effectively. If it were to happen there is an argument which says it will happen again.
Idris is an absolute must to sign. I'm sure the board will do all they can to facilitate that happening. We can only hope that it happens as he is superb.
We need a centre half in my opinion as today no one is able to challenge Beccles or Copper. We have Happe but he's injured and after that there is no one. We need 4 good players and 1 cover I.e someone who can cover there.
Keeper I'd agree with others we need our own keeper, saying that I am not against Sol coming on loan once more.
Winger it could be argued we need one more player in that position. Theo won't be back till after Xmas if we are being realistic which leaves O Neil and Graham to carry the load. That load needs to be eased.
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Post by Fisch on Apr 4, 2024 23:14:17 GMT
We have Simpson, as yet an unknown.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2024 0:31:43 GMT
The point is more that we don't need to break our wage structure on a 20-goal-a-season striker if we can find cheaper gains elsewhere. We don't necessarily need to score 12-15 more goals, just increase our goal difference by 12-15. I think upgrading in goal, relieving Galbraith from having to cover at fullback, and keeping Idris will get us at least most of the way there without betting the house on a single player. If Agyei and Graham can play 30+ games then that's us over the line. I agree we don’t have to break our wage structure but if we can unearth someone who can get 18-20 goals it will be a huge help. Increasing our goal difference by 12-15 will be a huge ask if you are expecting the defence to effectively do it all. The team with the tightest defence in League 1 is Lincoln (34 conceded) but even they have scored 60 ( 15 more than us). Unless there is an goalscoring threat it just doesn’t work I’m afraid. I wouldn't expect the defence to do it all, but if we also had a GA of 34 then that would increase our GD by 13 and we're there. Just a better goalie would probably get us half way and then you only need 5-7 more goals from somewhere. That's doable without signing a top class striker.
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Post by buffalobill on Apr 5, 2024 1:07:22 GMT
We defend from the front, so can’t necessarily lay the blame on the goalie, but yes I’d like to see our own settled keeper. We need another left sided CB, because Happe is unlikely to complete a full season and Simpson may be good enough to provide competition to Beccles and Cooper, but quality wise we look a bit thin at the back. Midfield is looking good if we can retain Idris, and if we can get more out of Saunders, and Pratley can contribute to another season. Galbraith and Brown look to be our future stars. Our wingers are often our first line of defence and we need another with Theo out, so there’s not too heavy a load on Graham and O’Neill. Agyei is good and we could get by with Ruel and Pigott as back up, but we’d need to be lucky. The way we play we only need 1striker, so I’d prefer to spend our money first on a wide player. If we do get a striker in, prepare yourselves for Charlie Kelman.
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Post by redshank on Apr 5, 2024 10:23:16 GMT
How many games a season would you expect Agyei to play,and with that in mind did we sign him knowing he would play only a bit part in the season.Hopefully it was just one of those seasons for him and the summer months will put this seasons woes behind him.A fit and raring to go team with Agyei playing a prominent part would bring great joy to the O's supporters because at his best he is our star player and an utter delight to watch play. I wouldn't expect to get more than, say, 36 games out of any striker. Yup,it is a tough long drawn out season.But 36 from Agyei would be great for the fans and team.Then he will move on,no doubt.
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Post by gizmo56 on Apr 5, 2024 10:39:10 GMT
I think we need a right back. Much as Rob Hunt is dependable, an upgrade would be good. We are light on fullbacks and depend on James being always available. Galbraith is better used further up the pitch.
Also think we need a replacement for Pratley who can do more minutes.
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