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Post by alfresco on Apr 21, 2024 9:13:46 GMT
We have won 2 of the last 10 games, taking 8 points from a possible 30 which is relegation form ( 37 points for a season)
We have failed to score in 6 of the 10 games.
Its a good job we had a very good spell from mid December, till end of January
Everyone thinks we had a poor start, but we won 4 of our first 10, much better than the last 10 games.
We really need an injection of decent players for next season, or we could be in trouble i reckon
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Post by redshank on Apr 21, 2024 9:48:44 GMT
Foot off the pedal football,a dose of the channels.Difficult to asses next season with the many forced and unforced changes the team will have.The end of June things will be a little clearer.
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Post by dubioushubris on Apr 21, 2024 10:05:46 GMT
Our start was bad, especially in the context of what we showed ourselves to be capable of afterwards. It took 5 goes to register a win and by the 6th game we'd conceded 11 goals with only 4 pts from a possible 18. That opening 10 games looks a lot better because of the 7 from 12 we picked up at the end of it (and the 10th was a loss to Fleetwood who hadn't won a game at that point).
While it wasn't a terrible start for a newly promoted team, when we looked to be in with a shout of the playoffs it counted against us because we couldn't make up the ground on teams like Oxford and Stevenage who were performing poorly but had had great starts.
I'm not worried about the last 10. Most of this team has been running on fumes since Feb and just hasn't been able to find that extra 10% effort with nothing to play for. Legs have gone, heads have gone, and it literally makes no difference if we finish 7th or 21st until the prize money structure changes next season. Richie says he wants to win these last games and I don't doubt it, but his team sheets and subs suggest he has other priorities.
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Post by redshank on Apr 21, 2024 10:10:03 GMT
Our start was bad, especially in the context of what we showed ourselves to be capable of afterwards. It took 5 goes to register a win and by the 6th game we'd conceded 11 goals with only 4 pts from a possible 18. That opening 10 games looks a lot better because of the 7 from 12 we picked up at the end of it (and the 10th was a loss to Fleetwood who hadn't won a game at that point). While it wasn't a terrible start for a newly promoted team, when we looked to be in with a shout of the playoffs it counted against us because we couldn't make up the ground on teams like Oxford and Stevenage who were performing poorly but had had great starts. I'm not worried about the last 10. Most of this team has been running on fumes since Feb and just hasn't been able to find that extra 10% effort with nothing to play for. Legs have gone, heads have gone, and it literally makes no difference if we finish 7th or 21st until the prize money structure changes next season. Richie says he wants to win these last games and I don't doubt it, but his team sheets and subs suggest he has other priorities. Very good comment. |
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Post by ramblingman on Apr 21, 2024 10:35:05 GMT
I'm somewhere in between in this debate. Yes, it's hard when there's nothing to play for and we have been unlucky with injuries.
But some of our performances recently would have been big defeats against more ruthless finishing and it's not good enough for a group of professionals to say they were knackered from February onwards. The commitment definitely seems to have gone and our game management - which has been a major strength - seems to have evaporated. Even the yellow cards have dried up.
So some questions arise. Such as how come our youth setup produced only one player deemed worthy of a chance in the run in, even though we were short of players?
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Post by redshank on Apr 21, 2024 11:00:51 GMT
I'm somewhere in between in this debate. Yes, it's hard when there's nothing to play for and we have been unlucky with injuries. But some of our performances recently would have been big defeats against more ruthless finishing and it's not good enough for a group of professionals to say they were knackered from February onwards. The commitment definitely seems to have gone and our game management - which has been a major strength - seems to have evaporated. Even the yellow cards have dried up. So some questions arise. Such as how come our youth setup produced only one player deemed worthy of a chance in the run in, even though we were short of players? Not many young players make it,and to have one of our own to become a regular first team player is very rare.As we have gone up two divisions it is harder for the youngsters to make it and have to show something special as we only want to progress. |
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Post by dohnut on Apr 21, 2024 11:17:17 GMT
We really need to stop this running on fumes stuff. The stats are out there and players in our squad do not figure particularly highly in either the number of games played nor the number of minutes played. Pretty average in fact for the whole season compared to other clubs. Ages too are no big differentiator. For sure it may limit substitution opportunities to change tactics. If it was a major issue we had January to fix it and we didn’t. When you look at the match day squad most of the time it contained regular squad players who would normally be challenging for starts. we didn’t need to call on kids that often out of need, we did by choice.
As for injuries, ONeil for Archibald. Cooper/Simpson for Happe. Good enough. And it seems we choose not to play Piggott.
Propaganda. Look at the stats. GK accepted El Miz comes in at number 40 for minutes so up there. You have to go further down to see James and them much further down for more Orient players. So they did their share, but nothing special compared to the general stats. Forde figures at number 140 in the list but he is young. If we were running on fumes then so was most other players. If our style is more demanding on the players, then that’s by choice.
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Post by redintheface on Apr 21, 2024 11:50:39 GMT
We have won 2 of the last 10 games, taking 8 points from a possible 30 which is relegation form ( 37 points for a season) We have failed to score in 6 of the 10 games. Its a good job we had a very good spell from mid December, till end of January Everyone thinks we had a poor start, but we won 4 of our first 10, much better than the last 10 games. We really need an injection of decent players for next season, or we could be in trouble i reckon Certainly a very poor run and yet , as you allude to, the same players had a very good spell during December & January. Losing Agyei for a second time was a real setback and Dan Happe’s loss was almost as great. Wellens has already said that he is looking to bring in at least 4 or 5 players in the close season in an effort to progress in what is likely to be a more difficult league. Just as important will be the choice of who we release and who we are able to retain. |
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Post by dubioushubris on Apr 21, 2024 11:54:18 GMT
I'm somewhere in between in this debate. Yes, it's hard when there's nothing to play for and we have been unlucky with injuries. But some of our performances recently would have been big defeats against more ruthless finishing and it's not good enough for a group of professionals to say they were knackered from February onwards. The commitment definitely seems to have gone and our game management - which has been a major strength - seems to have evaporated. Even the yellow cards have dried up. So some questions arise. Such as how come our youth setup produced only one player deemed worthy of a chance in the run in, even though we were short of players? On game management, I think this can partly be explained by having other priorities. Every game we've been making subs more for the sake of giving game time to loanees and getting players back to match fitness. If we were serious about winning yesterday we wouldn't have taken Simpson off for Happe and put Adu-Adjei on. On the youth players, I agree with redshank's reply, but I also think these dud games have been a missed opportunity. Maybe cos main contenders like Pegrum, Sodje, and Harvest(?) are on loan. Maybe we've overcommitted to giving Edwards and Adu-Adjei game time in order to keep Arsenal and Bournemouth sweet. |
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Post by dubioushubris on Apr 21, 2024 12:20:07 GMT
We really need to stop this running on fumes stuff. The stats are out there and players in our squad do not figure particularly highly in either the number of games played nor the number of minutes played. Pretty average in fact for the whole season compared to other clubs. Ages too are no big differentiator. For sure it may limit substitution opportunities to change tactics. If it was a major issue we had January to fix it and we didn’t. When you look at the match day squad most of the time it contained regular squad players who would normally be challenging for starts. we didn’t need to call on kids that often out of need, we did by choice. As for injuries, ONeil for Archibald. Cooper/Simpson for Happe. Good enough. And it seems we choose not to play Piggott. Propaganda. Look at the stats. GK accepted El Miz comes in at number 40 for minutes so up there. You have to go further down to see James and them much further down for more Orient players. So they did their share, but nothing special compared to the general stats. Forde figures at number 140 in the list but he is young. If we were running on fumes then so was most other players. If our style is more demanding on the players, then that’s by choice. But it's not just that, is it? It's one factor. And it counts when other things like having nothing to play for come in. Players' baseline fitness, match fitness, injury history, and their outlook for next season are all related to it. It's not as simple as looking at where players place on a list. Yes, O'Neill hasn't played many minutes compared to loads of players, but he'd also never played senior football before Jan. As good as he is, you can't expect him to perform at the level of Devante Cole week in week out. (Yet!) We also have players with expiring contracts and histories of big injuries. Is it fair to expect them to really push themselves for games that don't matter if an injury now means no income over the next season? I don't think so. But sure, it's propaganda 🙄 |
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Post by rplancso on Apr 21, 2024 12:58:27 GMT
Totally agree - it's not just about the quantitative stats, lots of qualitative context as dh has outlined.
In terms of minutes played though, fwiw the data set I looked at (GKs not included) showed Idris on 3382 mins (60th in the minutes table), then Tom James 3062 (94), Jordan Brown 3056 (95) and Ruel 3006 (96). The rest of the Os squad were outside 3000 mins. Out of the four Os players in the minutes played top 100, JB is the only one not to have had any time out injured I think (but he has had 3 games out suspended and he is 3rd in the league 1 yellow cards table).
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Post by dohnut on Apr 21, 2024 14:49:09 GMT
Totally agree - it's not just about the quantitative stats, lots of qualitative context as dh has outlined. In terms of minutes played though, fwiw the data set I looked at (GKs not included) showed Idris on 3382 mins (60th in the minutes table), then Tom James 3062 (94), Jordan Brown 3056 (95) and Ruel 3006 (96). The rest of the Os squad were outside 3000 mins. Out of the four Os players in the minutes played top 100, JB is the only one not to have had any time out injured I think (but he has had 3 games out suspended and he is 3rd in the league 1 yellow cards table). The issue I have is this. We have heard so often throughout the season about too many games. We’ve heard when we had a two week break with no games it can be an issue not to play. Players too young, players without minutes getting up to speed. Endless comments about the amount of time added on each game (except when we wanted extra time). And players need to adapt to our training and high press system. Come January we bring in two kids with little men’s competitive game time, both young, neither up-to-speed. we hear endless excuses, then compound the issues in January. Then of course we get the other excuses, officials, last minute signings failures and more that I probably have forgotten. all teams get injuries and suspensions, bye and large we’ve had our issues and sadly with key players, but that’s football. Why it’s now a squad game and look at our match day squad, most always first team ready squad players. So not too bad in reality. For sure there are reasons why this season has been difficult and without doubt we have done well despite some key losses. Credit to all. But for goodness sake let’s not become a team that rolls out the excuses at every and any opportunity. Sometimes contradictory. Which is what has happened and it now spreads to the fan base. The stats show quite clearly that we are little different in games and minutes played to others. Our players able to put in the minutes. Which means they were able to play. |
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Post by dubioushubris on Apr 21, 2024 15:30:13 GMT
Totally agree - it's not just about the quantitative stats, lots of qualitative context as dh has outlined. In terms of minutes played though, fwiw the data set I looked at (GKs not included) showed Idris on 3382 mins (60th in the minutes table), then Tom James 3062 (94), Jordan Brown 3056 (95) and Ruel 3006 (96). The rest of the Os squad were outside 3000 mins. Out of the four Os players in the minutes played top 100, JB is the only one not to have had any time out injured I think (but he has had 3 games out suspended and he is 3rd in the league 1 yellow cards table). Hold on. We have 5 players in the top 100? If every team had an even distribution of players on that list, it would amount to 4.2 each. Since that's impossible, the most even it could be is if 20 teams had 4 players on it and 4 teams had 5 players. You'd expect the same from 100-200 too, but I just checked and we have 6 there. (Below the top 200 you're talking about playing a max of half the possible minutes.) The average for each team should be 8.4 players in the top 200. We have 11. That's a full starting lineup of players that have played more minutes than most starting lineups in this league. If you look above Idris, 33 of the 54 players are keepers or defenders. Most of the rest are DMs like him. So actually the reason our busiest outfield player isn't higher that 55 isn't because the team as a whole is playing fewer minutes than most, but specifically because our defenders have played fewer minutes than other defenders. |
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Post by Thor on Apr 21, 2024 18:15:27 GMT
We have won 2 of the last 10 games, taking 8 points from a possible 30 which is relegation form ( 37 points for a season) We have failed to score in 6 of the 10 games. Its a good job we had a very good spell from mid December, till end of January Everyone thinks we had a poor start, but we won 4 of our first 10, much better than the last 10 games. We really need an injection of decent players for next season, or we could be in trouble i reckon Certainly a very poor run and yet , as you allude to, the same players had a very good spell during December & January. Losing Agyei for a second time was a real setback and Dan Happe’s loss was almost as great. Wellens has already said that he is looking to bring in at least 4 or 5 players in the close season in an effort to progress in what is likely to be a more difficult league. Just as important will be the choice of who we release and who we are able to retain. yet you've alluded to someone leaving who I assume is Richie? Yet failed to quantify or answer my questio as your talking nonsense as usual. If Richie does not sign a new contract between today and the end of May I will pay £100 to a charity of your choice. If he does will you do the same to mine? I choose Mind. I will post up proof of payment as well. Do you want to dance? |
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Post by Thor on Apr 21, 2024 18:18:22 GMT
We really need to stop this running on fumes stuff. The stats are out there and players in our squad do not figure particularly highly in either the number of games played nor the number of minutes played. Pretty average in fact for the whole season compared to other clubs. Ages too are no big differentiator. For sure it may limit substitution opportunities to change tactics. If it was a major issue we had January to fix it and we didn’t. When you look at the match day squad most of the time it contained regular squad players who would normally be challenging for starts. we didn’t need to call on kids that often out of need, we did by choice. As for injuries, ONeil for Archibald. Cooper/Simpson for Happe. Good enough. And it seems we choose not to play Piggott. Propaganda. Look at the stats. GK accepted El Miz comes in at number 40 for minutes so up there. You have to go further down to see James and them much further down for more Orient players. So they did their share, but nothing special compared to the general stats. Forde figures at number 140 in the list but he is young. If we were running on fumes then so was most other players. If our style is more demanding on the players, then that’s by choice. But it's not just that, is it? It's one factor. And it counts when other things like having nothing to play for come in. Players' baseline fitness, match fitness, injury history, and their outlook for next season are all related to it. It's not as simple as looking at where players place on a list. Yes, O'Neill hasn't played many minutes compared to loads of players, but he'd also never played senior football before Jan. As good as he is, you can't expect him to perform at the level of Devante Cole week in week out. (Yet!) We also have players with expiring contracts and histories of big injuries. Is it fair to expect them to really push themselves for games that don't matter if an injury now means no income over the next season? I don't think so. But sure, it's propaganda 🙄 Mark my words O'Neil will go for £1m in the future, maybe the first O to hit that level. Aimed at Doh. |
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Post by Thor on Apr 21, 2024 18:34:30 GMT
Totally agree - it's not just about the quantitative stats, lots of qualitative context as dh has outlined. In terms of minutes played though, fwiw the data set I looked at (GKs not included) showed Idris on 3382 mins (60th in the minutes table), then Tom James 3062 (94), Jordan Brown 3056 (95) and Ruel 3006 (96). The rest of the Os squad were outside 3000 mins. Out of the four Os players in the minutes played top 100, JB is the only one not to have had any time out injured I think (but he has had 3 games out suspended and he is 3rd in the league 1 yellow cards table). The issue I have is this. We have heard so often throughout the season about too many games. We’ve heard when we had a two week break with no games it can be an issue not to play. Players too young, players without minutes getting up to speed. Endless comments about the amount of time added on each game (except when we wanted extra time). And players need to adapt to our training and high press system. Come January we bring in two kids with little men’s competitive game time, both young, neither up-to-speed. we hear endless excuses, then compound the issues in January. Then of course we get the other excuses, officials, last minute signings failures and more that I probably have forgotten. all teams get injuries and suspensions, bye and large we’ve had our issues and sadly with key players, but that’s football. Why it’s now a squad game and look at our match day squad, most always first team ready squad players. So not too bad in reality. For sure there are reasons why this season has been difficult and without doubt we have done well despite some key losses. Credit to all. But for goodness sake let’s not become a team that rolls out the excuses at every and any opportunity. Sometimes contradictory. Which is what has happened and it now spreads to the fan base. The stats show quite clearly that we are little different in games and minutes played to others. Our players able to put in the minutes. Which means they were able to play. it's not excuses it's facts. Facts are something I think you like? Look at the Peterborough side, games (players) played at league one and then the championship, we've nothing like that in our squad. Look at Derby and do the same, we can't compete. So it's not about running around a 100x80 pitch it's the ability to do it at the level you are at game after game. We don't have that experience, yet. |
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Post by redintheface on Apr 21, 2024 19:13:15 GMT
Certainly a very poor run and yet , as you allude to, the same players had a very good spell during December & January. Losing Agyei for a second time was a real setback and Dan Happe’s loss was almost as great. Wellens has already said that he is looking to bring in at least 4 or 5 players in the close season in an effort to progress in what is likely to be a more difficult league. Just as important will be the choice of who we release and who we are able to retain. yet you've alluded to someone leaving who I assume is Richie? Yet failed to quantify or answer my questio as your talking nonsense as usual. If Richie does not sign a new contract between today and the end of May I will pay £100 to a charity of your choice. If he does will you do the same to mine? I choose Mind. I will post up proof of payment as well. Do you want to dance? Never assume old boy!😅😅 |
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Post by dohnut on Apr 21, 2024 21:26:57 GMT
The issue I have is this. We have heard so often throughout the season about too many games. We’ve heard when we had a two week break with no games it can be an issue not to play. Players too young, players without minutes getting up to speed. Endless comments about the amount of time added on each game (except when we wanted extra time). And players need to adapt to our training and high press system. Come January we bring in two kids with little men’s competitive game time, both young, neither up-to-speed. we hear endless excuses, then compound the issues in January. Then of course we get the other excuses, officials, last minute signings failures and more that I probably have forgotten. all teams get injuries and suspensions, bye and large we’ve had our issues and sadly with key players, but that’s football. Why it’s now a squad game and look at our match day squad, most always first team ready squad players. So not too bad in reality. For sure there are reasons why this season has been difficult and without doubt we have done well despite some key losses. Credit to all. But for goodness sake let’s not become a team that rolls out the excuses at every and any opportunity. Sometimes contradictory. Which is what has happened and it now spreads to the fan base. The stats show quite clearly that we are little different in games and minutes played to others. Our players able to put in the minutes. Which means they were able to play. it's not excuses it's facts. Facts are something I think you like? Look at the Peterborough side, games (players) played at league one and then the championship, we've nothing like that in our squad. Look at Derby and do the same, we can't compete. So it's not about running around a 100x80 pitch it's the ability to do it at the level you are at game after game. We don't have that experience, yet. Fitness and ability are different things. Im under no illusion that other teams have better players but that doesn’t have to mean fitter more motivated players. And there is sufficient experience in the squad. And in part decent cover for injured players. The problem I have with facts are this. We have suffered injuries, that is a fact. Say so, move on. Update when asked. But when it gets repeated endlessly alongside a whole raft of other things they become excuses. Not only for the management but the players themselves who then have excuses too. They’re all tired, the boss said so. That Thor is not motivation. Keep talking like that and people eventually believe it, fans, players, management. Be realistic but cut the moaning. You know better than most, football is not a perfect world, s*** happens, always has, always will. Most clubs have their issues. But what really matters is not always what happens but how you deal with it. Ironic that clubs are moaning at the PL about not wanting too many games, yet we do exactly that. Too many games, even too many minutes. |
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