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Post by kbola on Aug 28, 2024 15:39:34 GMT
- The euphoria of the win causing objectivity to be ignored I would argue its the frustration of poor results causing objectivity to be ignored. We seem to forget that the points lost in these games were from individual mistakes. I'm genuinely a bit baffled by the pessimism on this forum. We've played 3 of the league favourites, lost by 1 goal each time and could easily have have gotten points from all 3! The bedwetters are never happy. We must Keep The Faith |
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Post by dennisrofe on Aug 29, 2024 7:39:14 GMT
Millwall were shockingly poor. We were decent enough. A couple of outstanding performances, Agyie and Beckles but the rest just competent. The euphoria of the win causing objectivity to be ignored. Defensively very good, 0 shots on target from Millwall by any measure is excellent. Only one shot on target from us, not so. As a squad we have always recognised our back line is the strength of our team and so it is turning out. No real surprise. But for our performances to be considered good, that quality needs to run through not only the back line, but through midfield and up front. We are good at nullifying the opposition. Restricting chances. But that’s it. Very little else other than work rate. In the league we concede, we lose. The bottom line. Our midfield just ain’t good enough yet , in the first 10 minutes I counted 5 long upfield punts that came to nothing, thankfully that stopped to a degree. Where is the ball carrying midfielder? where is the dominant midfielder able to put his foot on the ball, look around, make the quality pass? Bar the odd occasion they don’t exist. Just huff and puff instead of quality. Restricting opposition chances is a great place to start. But it is just that, a start. Until the midfield and forwards improve we just rely on work rate, high press. Because the creativity just ain’t there, yet. Hi dohnut. In the past I have sometimes disagreed with some of your over enthusiastic comments about the Os and some of your judgements on certain players but you have written 2 excellent comments here on this thread, saying it exactly as it is with as you say ''no rose tinted glasses'' I really enjoyed reading what you wrote and you showed a good and balanced view of the game. As to '' Where is the ball carrying midfielder? where is the dominant midfielder able to put his foot on the ball, look around, make the quality pass?'' Well we had a player like that and he has now gone on loan to Southend !! You always had faith in Joe Pigott and said that there was a player in him, just did not fit into Wellin's style of playing, well he is starting to play very well now for AFC Wimbledon, scored their only goal on Saturday in a 1-0 away win to Cheltenham Town and last night he came on as a 72nd minute substitute against Ipswich Town, and when the game finished at 2-2 at full time it went to penalties, Joe took the first penalty for the ''Wombles'' which he scored and they won 4-2 on penalties. In the BBC match report ratings, Joe got the third highest player ratings ''J. Pigott 8.13'' Well done Joe and hope the rest of your loan spell goes well, seems you have found a team where you are happy and fitting in well ! |
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Post by dohnut on Aug 29, 2024 12:06:19 GMT
Millwall were shockingly poor. We were decent enough. A couple of outstanding performances, Agyie and Beckles but the rest just competent. The euphoria of the win causing objectivity to be ignored. Defensively very good, 0 shots on target from Millwall by any measure is excellent. Only one shot on target from us, not so. As a squad we have always recognised our back line is the strength of our team and so it is turning out. No real surprise. But for our performances to be considered good, that quality needs to run through not only the back line, but through midfield and up front. We are good at nullifying the opposition. Restricting chances. But that’s it. Very little else other than work rate. In the league we concede, we lose. The bottom line. Our midfield just ain’t good enough yet , in the first 10 minutes I counted 5 long upfield punts that came to nothing, thankfully that stopped to a degree. Where is the ball carrying midfielder? where is the dominant midfielder able to put his foot on the ball, look around, make the quality pass? Bar the odd occasion they don’t exist. Just huff and puff instead of quality. Restricting opposition chances is a great place to start. But it is just that, a start. Until the midfield and forwards improve we just rely on work rate, high press. Because the creativity just ain’t there, yet. Hi dohnut. In the past I have sometimes disagreed with some of your over enthusiastic comments about the Os and some of your judgements on certain players but you have written 2 excellent comments here on this thread, saying it exactly as it is with as you say ''no rose tinted glasses'' I really enjoyed reading what you wrote and you showed a good and balanced view of the game. As to '' Where is the ball carrying midfielder? where is the dominant midfielder able to put his foot on the ball, look around, make the quality pass?'' Well we had a player like that and he has now gone on loan to Southend !! You always had faith in Joe Pigott and said that there was a player in him, just did not fit into Wellin's style of playing, well he is starting to play very well now for AFC Wimbledon, scored their only goal on Saturday in a 1-0 away win to Cheltenham Town and last night he came on as a 72nd minute substitute against Ipswich Town, and when the game finished at 2-2 at full time it went to penalties, Joe took the first penalty for the ''Wombles'' which he scored and they won 4-2 on penalties. In the BBC match report ratings, Joe got the third highest player ratings ''J. Pigott 8.13'' Well done Joe and hope the rest of your loan spell goes well, seems you have found a team where you are happy and fitting in well ! How I see it is this. Many of us have been round the Orient block many times, bought endless tee shirts, see it all before and then some. So perhaps we see things differently, I know I do. Pragmatism rules. Rose tinted glasses long since consigned to the bin. I enjoy the wins, like Millwall, but have the experience to know it’s just one game, against a really poor performing team. We haven’t all of a sudden become world beaters. And whilst some of our team enjoyed a good game most were simply adequate, competent. Thats it. By the same token our league losses don’t make us a poor squad either. Just lacking depth and experience. I hate excuses. We win as a team, we lose as a team. Hemming is not alone in making mistakes, his are just more obvious. But we have a mistake ridden, untidy and ill disciplined team. Not clicking, lack of leadership. No surprise Pratley was a player who got positive mentions on the Millwall forum. Take him away and we are lacking big time. Who is out there to steady the ship when times get tough? A true leader? We ain’t got one! I’d be on cloud nine should we rack up wins and score big. Everything is possible but as it stands unlikely. We just don’t create enough chances. Just as well we restrict the opposition. We are just so slow and sluggish going forward. No pace, no creativity, lacking ideas. Why we go backwards so much. Our midfield and forwards just staring in the headlights. Makes me want to cry that Moncs is being part paid by us to play for Southend where they are raving about him, even more so when RW says he is surprised a league 2 or league 1 club didn’t come in for him. But if you don’t run around at 100moh for 90 minutes you don’t fit. James going the same way. Quantity one quality rules. Work rate is king. Or headless chickens? We have to improve. Shrewsbury an ideal opportunity. |
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Post by dennisrofe on Aug 29, 2024 12:40:33 GMT
Hi dohnut. In the past I have sometimes disagreed with some of your over enthusiastic comments about the Os and some of your judgements on certain players but you have written 2 excellent comments here on this thread, saying it exactly as it is with as you say ''no rose tinted glasses'' I really enjoyed reading what you wrote and you showed a good and balanced view of the game. As to '' Where is the ball carrying midfielder? where is the dominant midfielder able to put his foot on the ball, look around, make the quality pass?'' Well we had a player like that and he has now gone on loan to Southend !! You always had faith in Joe Pigott and said that there was a player in him, just did not fit into Wellin's style of playing, well he is starting to play very well now for AFC Wimbledon, scored their only goal on Saturday in a 1-0 away win to Cheltenham Town and last night he came on as a 72nd minute substitute against Ipswich Town, and when the game finished at 2-2 at full time it went to penalties, Joe took the first penalty for the ''Wombles'' which he scored and they won 4-2 on penalties. In the BBC match report ratings, Joe got the third highest player ratings ''J. Pigott 8.13'' Well done Joe and hope the rest of your loan spell goes well, seems you have found a team where you are happy and fitting in well ! How I see it is this. Many of us have been round the Orient block many times, bought endless tee shirts, see it all before and then some. So perhaps we see things differently, I know I do. Pragmatism rules. Rose tinted glasses long since consigned to the bin. I enjoy the wins, like Millwall, but have the experience to know it’s just one game, against a really poor performing team. We haven’t all of a sudden become world beaters. And whilst some of our team enjoyed a good game most were simply adequate, competent. Thats it. By the same token our league losses don’t make us a poor squad either. Just lacking depth and experience. I hate excuses. We win as a team, we lose as a team. Hemming is not alone in making mistakes, his are just more obvious. But we have a mistake ridden, untidy and ill disciplined team. Not clicking, lack of leadership. No surprise Pratley was a player who got positive mentions on the Millwall forum. Take him away and we are lacking big time. Who is out there to steady the ship when times get tough? A true leader? We ain’t got one! I’d be on cloud nine should we rack up wins and score big. Everything is possible but as it stands unlikely. We just don’t create enough chances. Just as well we restrict the opposition. We are just so slow and sluggish going forward. No pace, no creativity, lacking ideas. Why we go backwards so much. Our midfield and forwards just staring in the headlights. Makes me want to cry that Moncs is being part paid by us to play for Southend where they are raving about him, even more so when RW says he is surprised a league 2 or league 1 club didn’t come in for him. But if you don’t run around at 100moh for 90 minutes you don’t fit. James going the same way. Quantity one quality rules. Work rate is king. Or headless chickens? We have to improve. Shrewsbury an ideal opportunity. Rather than send Moncur out on loan, if Richie thought he was lacking fitness for the full 90 minutes, then why not get 60 quality minutes out of him, surely better to have half a cake than no cake at all. I get the idea that for all his good points, Richie can sometimes be a bit stubborn, seems a bit like ''my way or no way'' perhaps I am wrong ? |
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Post by redshank on Aug 29, 2024 12:43:16 GMT
We are well past the headless chickens stage,we play much better when playing at speed.Those on the outside looking in are surprised how good and neat our play is.Mistakes are costly as we often find out.Most games are won on other teams mistakes,now and then we outplay a side and still lose or draw.Football is fascinating to watch for many reasons although the result often annoys.
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Post by redshank on Aug 29, 2024 12:45:12 GMT
How I see it is this. Many of us have been round the Orient block many times, bought endless tee shirts, see it all before and then some. So perhaps we see things differently, I know I do. Pragmatism rules. Rose tinted glasses long since consigned to the bin. I enjoy the wins, like Millwall, but have the experience to know it’s just one game, against a really poor performing team. We haven’t all of a sudden become world beaters. And whilst some of our team enjoyed a good game most were simply adequate, competent. Thats it. By the same token our league losses don’t make us a poor squad either. Just lacking depth and experience. I hate excuses. We win as a team, we lose as a team. Hemming is not alone in making mistakes, his are just more obvious. But we have a mistake ridden, untidy and ill disciplined team. Not clicking, lack of leadership. No surprise Pratley was a player who got positive mentions on the Millwall forum. Take him away and we are lacking big time. Who is out there to steady the ship when times get tough? A true leader? We ain’t got one! I’d be on cloud nine should we rack up wins and score big. Everything is possible but as it stands unlikely. We just don’t create enough chances. Just as well we restrict the opposition. We are just so slow and sluggish going forward. No pace, no creativity, lacking ideas. Why we go backwards so much. Our midfield and forwards just staring in the headlights. Makes me want to cry that Moncs is being part paid by us to play for Southend where they are raving about him, even more so when RW says he is surprised a league 2 or league 1 club didn’t come in for him. But if you don’t run around at 100moh for 90 minutes you don’t fit. James going the same way. Quantity one quality rules. Work rate is king. Or headless chickens? We have to improve. Shrewsbury an ideal opportunity. Rather than send Moncur out on loan, if Richie thought he was lacking fitness for the full 90 minutes, then why not get 60 quality minutes out of him, surely better to have half a cake than no cake at all. I get the idea that for all his good points, Richie can sometimes be a bit stubborn, seems a bit like ''my way or no way'' perhaps I am wrong ? Always have to heed the bosses call,did it through gritted teeth for decades. |
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Post by tommydark on Aug 29, 2024 12:47:56 GMT
RW is my way or the highway.
We need an old head to direct the traffic.
Bowles hardly ran,just passed,passed.
Pratley can play regularly in that role.
Age is but a number after all.
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Post by dennisrofe on Aug 29, 2024 13:08:11 GMT
RW is my way or the highway. We need an old head to direct the traffic. Bowles hardly ran,just passed,passed. Pratley can play regularly in that role. Age is but a number after all. Moncur could also have played that type of role, there is always room for artistry and skill in a football team, midfield conductor if you like.
Alex James did it for the great Arsenal team of the 1930s era. Herbert Chapman converted him to '''a playmaking lynchpin at Arsenal with whom he won six trophies from 1930 to the 1936 season. James featured as a deep-lying creative midfielder who provided a link between defence and attack. He was famed for his high level of footballing intelligence, outstanding ball control and supreme passing. James was described by Tom Finney as "an inspiration" and "pure magic" with his style of play eventually leading to comparisons with Dennis Bergkamp. His rheumatism meant he wore "baggy" shorts so as to conceal the long johns he put on for warmth. His baggy attire became his own trademark look displayed upon the field of play ''
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Post by redintheface on Aug 29, 2024 13:56:07 GMT
RW is my way or the highway. We need an old head to direct the traffic. Bowles hardly ran,just passed,passed. Pratley can play regularly in that role. Age is but a number after all. Moncur could also have played that type of role, there is always room for artistry and skill in a football team, midfield conductor if you like.
Alex James did it for the great Arsenal team of the 1930s era. Herbert Chapman converted him to '''a playmaking lynchpin at Arsenal with whom he won six trophies from 1930 to the 1936 season. James featured as a deep-lying creative midfielder who provided a link between defence and attack. He was famed for his high level of footballing intelligence, outstanding ball control and supreme passing. James was described by Tom Finney as "an inspiration" and "pure magic" with his style of play eventually leading to comparisons with Dennis Bergkamp. His rheumatism meant he wore "baggy" shorts so as to conceal the long johns he put on for warmth. His baggy attire became his own trademark look displayed upon the field of play ''
Certainly Johnny Haynes was a player I did see and he fulfilled the playmaker role you describe to a tee for both Fulham and England 👍 |
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Post by dohnut on Aug 29, 2024 14:05:41 GMT
We are well past the headless chickens stage,we play much better when playing at speed.Those on the outside looking in are surprised how good and neat our play is.Mistakes are costly as we often find out.Most games are won on other teams mistakes,now and then we outplay a side and still lose or draw.Football is fascinating to watch for many reasons although the result often annoys. But we don’t play with speed. That is the issue and one RW has mentioned more than once. We run around a lot, high press, get back to defend in numbers. All good stuff. But once we get the ball we are laborious going forward, hence the headless chickens comment. Turn too many good opportunities into wasted ones. Sideways, backwards even when we get into good attacking positions we are looking to go backwards, even on occasions to our keeper for no real good reason. The huge frustration being when we do attack with speed, we are pretty good. But we just don’t. Who knows why? Playing with speed ain’t running around a lot. Until we are more adventurous we will struggle to create many chances. Fix that and we are on our way. Until then the headless chickens comment is valid. Against what appears a poor Shrewsbury side, we have a massive opportunity. As good as it gets. So let’s hope our mindset is better. RW is working overtime on that aspect of our game. |
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Post by dennisrofe on Aug 29, 2024 18:44:19 GMT
Moncur could also have played that type of role, there is always room for artistry and skill in a football team, midfield conductor if you like.
Alex James did it for the great Arsenal team of the 1930s era. Herbert Chapman converted him to '''a playmaking lynchpin at Arsenal with whom he won six trophies from 1930 to the 1936 season. James featured as a deep-lying creative midfielder who provided a link between defence and attack. He was famed for his high level of footballing intelligence, outstanding ball control and supreme passing. James was described by Tom Finney as "an inspiration" and "pure magic" with his style of play eventually leading to comparisons with Dennis Bergkamp. His rheumatism meant he wore "baggy" shorts so as to conceal the long johns he put on for warmth. His baggy attire became his own trademark look displayed upon the field of play ''
Certainly Johnny Haynes was a player I did see and he fulfilled the playmaker role you describe to a tee for both Fulham and England 👍 The great Pele described Haynes as “the best passer of the ball I've ever seen.” Nicknamed "the Maestro", his attacking play was noted for two-footed passing ability, vision and deftness of touch. In August 1962 on Blackpool promenade, the sports car in which he was returning late to his hotel was blown by a gust of wind into the path of another vehicle. Haynes suffered broken bones in both feet and a badly injured knee. He recounted that the police officer who attended the incident reassured him by saying "Don't worry son, you've only broken your legs". He missed almost the entire season and, when he returned to the Fulham side, was not quite the same player. Prior to the accident, he had captained England 22 times, and, being only 27, was expected to lead them in the 1966 FIFA World Cup, but he was never again selected for the national team. I saw Haynes play at his peak before his bad injury and believe me he was a once in a lifetime great player. |
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Post by watfordo on Aug 29, 2024 19:08:41 GMT
holy s*** batman, what negativity! Why are the top forwards costing over 100m? Cos they get one chance and score. We had one effort on goal and scored, that's proper finishing yet your ripping the crap out the team. Stand up for the Orient. The Orient Express is off and running now. Get behind the lads, it's gonna be interesting. I'm off to continue drinking. I can't hack this negativity Dohnut. Up the O's! I’ve been supporting Orient for 65 years, actually going to games, a real supporter putting my money and time where my mouth is. So stop all this me and negativity crap, please. When you’ve achieved what I have as a supporter, put up with what I have, then you can talk. If what I do is negative in your opinion you need to have a long hard think. My actions, not words, is positively and optimism in the extreme. Otherwise I would have given up years ago. For sure you’ve been drinking. Think again when the alcohol wears off. I’m a real supporter but a realist not delusional. We are work in progress. A win against a shocking Millwall team, whilst extremely enjoyable, doesn’t make us there yet. Our performances thus far whilst decent enough have not been great. Plenty of room for improvement. Plenty. For what it’s worth £100m strikers miss too, in case you hadn’t noticed. Doh telling everyone hes a ‘real’ fan….. |
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Post by dohnut on Aug 29, 2024 19:12:11 GMT
I’ve been supporting Orient for 65 years, actually going to games, a real supporter putting my money and time where my mouth is. So stop all this me and negativity crap, please. When you’ve achieved what I have as a supporter, put up with what I have, then you can talk. If what I do is negative in your opinion you need to have a long hard think. My actions, not words, is positively and optimism in the extreme. Otherwise I would have given up years ago. For sure you’ve been drinking. Think again when the alcohol wears off. I’m a real supporter but a realist not delusional. We are work in progress. A win against a shocking Millwall team, whilst extremely enjoyable, doesn’t make us there yet. Our performances thus far whilst decent enough have not been great. Plenty of room for improvement. Plenty. For what it’s worth £100m strikers miss too, in case you hadn’t noticed. Doh telling everyone hes a ‘real’ fan….. WatfotdO demonstrating all the traits of being a troll 😂 (again) |
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Post by watfordo on Aug 29, 2024 19:18:17 GMT
Doh telling everyone hes a ‘real’ fan….. WatfotdO demonstrating all the traits of being a troll 😂 (again) If trolling is merely pointing out the repetitive nature of your posts and, lets face it, you give ample opportunity to do so, then Im a troll. Im only sorry you didnt mention prefabs and bootstraps. Then we could have played a real game of Doh bingo. |
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Post by dohnut on Aug 29, 2024 19:25:26 GMT
WatfotdO demonstrating all the traits of being a troll 😂 (again) If trolling is merely pointing out the repetitive nature of your posts and, lets face it, you give ample opportunity to do so, then Im a troll. Im only sorry you didnt mention prefabs and bootstraps. Then we could have played a real game of Doh bingo. 👍 |
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Post by confucius on Aug 30, 2024 10:39:56 GMT
Millwall were shockingly poor. We were decent enough. A couple of outstanding performances, Agyie and Beckles but the rest just competent. The euphoria of the win causing objectivity to be ignored. Defensively very good, 0 shots on target from Millwall by any measure is excellent. Only one shot on target from us, not so. As a squad we have always recognised our back line is the strength of our team and so it is turning out. No real surprise. But for our performances to be considered good, that quality needs to run through not only the back line, but through midfield and up front. We are good at nullifying the opposition. Restricting chances. But that’s it. Very little else other than work rate. In the league we concede, we lose. The bottom line. Our midfield just ain’t good enough yet , in the first 10 minutes I counted 5 long upfield punts that came to nothing, thankfully that stopped to a degree. Where is the ball carrying midfielder? where is the dominant midfielder able to put his foot on the ball, look around, make the quality pass? Bar the odd occasion they don’t exist. Just huff and puff instead of quality. Restricting opposition chances is a great place to start. But it is just that, a start. Until the midfield and forwards improve we just rely on work rate, high press. Because the creativity just ain’t there, yet. Hi dohnut. In the past I have sometimes disagreed with some of your over enthusiastic comments about the Os and some of your judgements on certain players but you have written 2 excellent comments here on this thread, saying it exactly as it is with as you say ''no rose tinted glasses'' I really enjoyed reading what you wrote and you showed a good and balanced view of the game. As to '' Where is the ball carrying midfielder? where is the dominant midfielder able to put his foot on the ball, look around, make the quality pass?'' Well we had a player like that and he has now gone on loan to Southend !! You always had faith in Joe Pigott and said that there was a player in him, just did not fit into Wellin's style of playing, well he is starting to play very well now for AFC Wimbledon, scored their only goal on Saturday in a 1-0 away win to Cheltenham Town and last night he came on as a 72nd minute substitute against Ipswich Town, and when the game finished at 2-2 at full time it went to penalties, Joe took the first penalty for the ''Wombles'' which he scored and they won 4-2 on penalties. In the BBC match report ratings, Joe got the third highest player ratings ''J. Pigott 8.13'' Well done Joe and hope the rest of your loan spell goes well, seems you have found a team where you are happy and fitting in well ! Confucius say: “Never trust man who thought Becchetti was a good thing.” |
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Post by Thor on Aug 30, 2024 10:56:57 GMT
The old disoriented slip of the tongue there!!
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Post by redshank on Aug 30, 2024 12:53:33 GMT
The old disoriented slip of the tongue there!! The sore thumb returns to bore. |
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