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Post by dohnut on Sept 2, 2024 17:17:03 GMT
If you get to see one game, that was it. Denis Law played if I recall Denis Law took time to sign many autographs and his skills were all on show that day.I can still see his knees going one way and then the other when confronted by one of our players.I was standing direct in line when the goal was scored. Called Chubby Law if I recall, I assume a link to Chubby Checker. Let’s twist again or something like that. Definitely not his weight, skinny. |
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Post by tommydark on Sept 2, 2024 17:17:44 GMT
I was looking at the stats of the 62-63 season to refresh my memory.
We made a solid start,4 wins in first 11 games and were lower middle in the table.
Then our task became stark and we won just 2 of the last 31 games.
We were unprepared for the task of first division wages and were still paying players these in 63-64 and 64-65.
The board off loaded these high earners when contracts ended,and Dave sexton was left with a very young team and a further relegation in 1966.with Les gore in charge after sexton threw in the towel.
Who would of thought the joy of a season in the sun would cause such financial mayhem for several years afterwards.
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Post by dohnut on Sept 2, 2024 17:48:18 GMT
I was looking at the stats of the 62-63 season to refresh my memory. We made a solid start,4 wins in first 11 games and were lower middle in the table. Then our task became stark and we won just 2 of the last 31 games. We were unprepared for the task of first division wages and were still paying players these in 63-64 and 64-65. The board off loaded these high earners when contracts ended,and Dave sexton was left with a very young team and a further relegation in 1966.with Les gore in charge after sexton threw in the towel. Who would have thought the joy of a season in the sun would cause such financial mayhem for several years afterwards. The assumption being a promotion winning team was good enough to survive in Division 1. And for a while that was true, but the season is a marathon not a sprint and we, like others before, couldn’t maintain that level. If the story was true, the Board wanted to finance changes part way through the season but Johnny Carey suggested it would be too little, too late so didn’t bother. From memory out highest league position was 12th. But a season I would not have missed for anything. Wins against WHU, Champions Everton, Man United, Liverpool. Losses to Arsenal, Spurs. Wild times. |
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Post by tommydark on Sept 2, 2024 18:32:17 GMT
Im beginning to wonder ,Nigel Travis having memories of what happened in the 60s when we overspent,and now seeing the likes of Birmingham and Wrexham doing the same,has become wary of us treading that 60s path again,and has decided a conservative method is best for us.who can blame him if we already lose £3m a year.Its time we cranked up our youth system to what it once was.
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2024 18:41:59 GMT
Its time we cranked up our youth system to what it once was. Spot on, Tommy. Keeping up with the Birminghams & Wrexhams clearly isn't an option (& history says it isn't sustainable anyway) so finding & growing our own talent has to be the way. That option doesn’t come cheap either though, I guess. |
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Post by redintheface on Sept 2, 2024 19:08:39 GMT
I was looking at the stats of the 62-63 season to refresh my memory. We made a solid start,4 wins in first 11 games and were lower middle in the table. Then our task became stark and we won just 2 of the last 31 games. We were unprepared for the task of first division wages and were still paying players these in 63-64 and 64-65. The board off loaded these high earners when contracts ended,and Dave sexton was left with a very young team and a further relegation in 1966.with Les gore in charge after sexton threw in the towel. Who would have thought the joy of a season in the sun would cause such financial mayhem for several years afterwards. Problems began when the Board of the time ( Zussman /Delfont / Grade etc) failed to adequately back Carey in the transfer market and he was left with almost exactly the same group of players who took us up. Sound familiar?🤔😆 |
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Post by dennisrofe on Sept 2, 2024 19:39:06 GMT
If you get to see one game, that was it. Denis Law played if I recall Denis Law took time to sign many autographs and his skills were all on show that day.I can still see his knees going one way and then the other when confronted by one of our players.I was standing direct in line when the goal was scored. I just looked this game up.
Leyton Orient 1 Manchester United 0
Goal scorer Terry McDonald 89'
Leyton Orient
Bishop
Lea
Charlton
Lucas
McDonald Lewis
Deeley
Graham
Dunmore Bolland
Manchester United Gaskell
Foulkes
Bill Foulkes
Bill Foulkes England
Dunne
Brennan
Lawton
Nicholson
Setters
McMillan
Herd
Moir
Law
Ebay 1962 Leyton Orient V Manchester United Football Programe 1st Division Season. £6.99
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Post by dohnut on Sept 2, 2024 20:43:36 GMT
Denis Law took time to sign many autographs and his skills were all on show that day.I can still see his knees going one way and then the other when confronted by one of our players.I was standing direct in line when the goal was scored. I just looked this game up.
Leyton Orient 1 Manchester United 0
Goal scorer Terry McDonald 89'
Leyton Orient
Bishop
Lea
Charlton
Lucas
McDonald Lewis
Deeley
Graham
Dunmore Bolland
Manchester United Gaskell
Foulkes
Bill Foulkes
Bill Foulkes England
Dunne
Brennan
Lawton
Nicholson
Setters
McMillan
Herd
Moir
Law
Ebay 1962 Leyton Orient V Manchester United Football Programe 1st Division Season. £6.99
I’ve got all 21 home programmes for that season in a dusty box somewhere. Few away ones too, mostly London teams. |
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Post by eca on Sept 2, 2024 22:41:15 GMT
Two points
1. In that era there were not two players for every position - in fact one generally could name the players before the game and know their number and the position they would play.
2. The number of non playing staff was far less we have now. I have raised this subject before and I am convinced we have too many administration staff in a range of job titles that exceed what we had in the era mentioned
I am convinced the ratio expenditure allocated to that non playing staff is greater than what is needed as a % of our turnover. MD in an interview states it is consistent with other clubs of our size.
My thought is if we losing 3million a year as projected then it obviously the wrong metric to compare with other clubs.
I would like to see a reduction in staff non playing and a rationalisation of staff duties to permit this.
Remember we had far larger match day crowds then with less staff thus the cost : revenue would be more sustainable.
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Post by dennisrofe on Sept 2, 2024 23:04:11 GMT
I just looked this game up.
Leyton Orient 1 Manchester United 0
Goal scorer Terry McDonald 89'
Leyton Orient
Bishop
Lea
Charlton
Lucas
McDonald Lewis
Deeley
Graham
Dunmore Bolland
Manchester United Gaskell
Foulkes
Bill Foulkes
Bill Foulkes England
Dunne
Brennan
Lawton
Nicholson
Setters
McMillan
Herd
Moir
Law
Ebay 1962 Leyton Orient V Manchester United Football Programe 1st Division Season. £6.99
I’ve got all 21 home programmes for that season in a dusty box somewhere. Few away ones too, mostly London teams. Did you go to all the games that you have programmes for ? |
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Post by dennisrofe on Sept 2, 2024 23:28:09 GMT
I was looking at the stats of the 62-63 season to refresh my memory. We made a solid start,4 wins in first 11 games and were lower middle in the table. Then our task became stark and we won just 2 of the last 31 games. We were unprepared for the task of first division wages and were still paying players these in 63-64 and 64-65. The board off loaded these high earners when contracts ended,and Dave sexton was left with a very young team and a further relegation in 1966.with Les gore in charge after sexton threw in the towel. Who would have thought the joy of a season in the sun would cause such financial mayhem for several years afterwards. Problems began when the Board of the time ( Zussman /Delfont / Grade etc) failed to adequately back Carey in the transfer market and he was left with almost exactly the same group of players who took us up. Sound familiar?🤔😆 I remember how the board starved Johnny Carey of funds to buy decent players. Do you remember the farce of buying ex Wolves inside forward Bobby Mason from non league Chelmsford City, a cheapskate buy if ever there was and despite the big build up about how good Mason was, well he turned out to be well past his best. There was also a rumour going round that we put in an offer for the great Burnley player, Jimmy McIlroy well whatever the truth, he chose instead to go to Stoke City who at the time had a collection of experienced veterans with the likes of Stanley Matthews, Dennis Viollet, Jackie Mudie and Don Ratcliffe |
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Post by eca on Sept 2, 2024 23:31:46 GMT
Yes stoke city had virtually a complete team made up of older quality house hold known players.
That went on for years.
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Post by tommydark on Sept 3, 2024 1:11:47 GMT
Some clubs thrive on signing only experienced players.
Another one was Jimmy Bloomfield's Leicester.
It takes a certain manager to hold it together.when Bloomfield left,Leicester were relegated the next season
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Post by eca on Sept 3, 2024 3:19:03 GMT
The issue today is
1. The explosion is the players earnings
2. Because we now have a vast number of overseas players in the premier division who just follow the money. This means they do not drop down to the local EFL near where they live, after their premier contract expires. They just go abroad. The opportunity to see players of international class playing at orient at the end of their careers is over.
Lofc have no other option now than to go down the current route of promoting young players.
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Post by redintheface on Sept 3, 2024 6:34:16 GMT
Problems began when the Board of the time ( Zussman /Delfont / Grade etc) failed to adequately back Carey in the transfer market and he was left with almost exactly the same group of players who took us up. Sound familiar?🤔😆 I remember how the board starved Johnny Carey of funds to buy decent players. Do you remember the farce of buying ex Wolves inside forward Bobby Mason from non league Chelmsford City, a cheapskate buy if ever there was and despite the big build up about how good Mason was, well he turned out to be well past his best. There was also a rumour going round that we put in an offer for the great Burnley player, Jimmy McIlroy well whatever the truth, he chose instead to go to Stoke City who at the time had a collection of experienced veterans with the likes of Stanley Matthews, Dennis Viollet, Jackie Mudie and Don Ratcliffe Yes, indeed I do remember Bobby Mason den. I also recall another signing who turned out to be a huge disappointment- Mal Musgrove from the Hanmers. He scored on his debut I believe but soon became the butt of the fans in the West Side and was subjected to some fierce barracking as his form plummeted alongside that of the team. It might have been very different if the Board had given Carey some financial backing but they didn’t and Carey left at the end of the season. |
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Post by dennisrofe on Sept 3, 2024 8:30:57 GMT
I remember how the board starved Johnny Carey of funds to buy decent players. Do you remember the farce of buying ex Wolves inside forward Bobby Mason from non league Chelmsford City, a cheapskate buy if ever there was and despite the big build up about how good Mason was, well he turned out to be well past his best. There was also a rumour going round that we put in an offer for the great Burnley player, Jimmy McIlroy well whatever the truth, he chose instead to go to Stoke City who at the time had a collection of experienced veterans with the likes of Stanley Matthews, Dennis Viollet, Jackie Mudie and Don Ratcliffe Yes, indeed I do remember Bobby Mason den. I also recall another signing who turned out to be a huge disappointment- Mal Musgrove from the Hanmers. He scored on his debut I believe but soon became the butt of the fans in the West Side and was subjected to some fierce barracking as his form plummeted alongside that of the team. It might have been very different if the Board had given Carey some financial backing but they didn’t and Carey left at the end of the season. Yes I well remember Malcolm Musgrove, quote Wikipedia ''At West Ham, he soon established himself as a left-winger, making his league debut in 1954 against Brentford. He went on to make 301 league and cup appearances for the Hammers before joining Leyton Orient as player-coach in December 1962. He became chairman of the Professional Footballers' Association in 1962 and remained in the post until his retirement as a player in 1966'' As an aside, Omar Beckles is also the current chairman of the Professional Footballers' Association. Yes well remember Musgrove and god knows what happened to his football form when he joined the Os ? Slow and cumbersome with little to no ball control and completely ineffective when he played on the left wing. He was quite frankly one of the worst players I have ever seen pull the Os shirt on and I reckon the worst import I have ever seen to join Os from our neighbours West Ham and we have had some very good ones, three of my favourites being Dave Dunmore, Peter Brabrook and Peter Bennett !! |
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Post by redintheface on Sept 3, 2024 8:41:17 GMT
Yes, indeed I do remember Bobby Mason den. I also recall another signing who turned out to be a huge disappointment- Mal Musgrove from the Hanmers. He scored on his debut I believe but soon became the butt of the fans in the West Side and was subjected to some fierce barracking as his form plummeted alongside that of the team. It might have been very different if the Board had given Carey some financial backing but they didn’t and Carey left at the end of the season. Yes I well remember Malcolm Musgrove, quote Wikipedia ''At West Ham, he soon established himself as a left-winger, making his league debut in 1954 against Brentford. He went on to make 301 league and cup appearances for the Hammers before joining Leyton Orient as player-coach in December 1962. He became chairman of the Professional Footballers' Association in 1962 and remained in the post until his retirement as a player in 1966'' As an aside, Omar Beckles is also the current chairman of the Professional Footballers' Association. Yes well remember Musgrove and god knows what happened to his football form when he joined the Os ? Slow and cumbersome with little to no ball control and completely ineffective when he played on the left wing. He was quite frankly one of the worst players I have ever seen pull the Os shirt on and I reckon the worst import I have ever seen to join Os from our neighbours West Ham and we have had some very good ones, three of my favourites being Dave Dunmore, Peter Brabrook and Peter Bennett !! Bennett, Brabrook and Dunmore - now you’re talking! 👍. |
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Post by dennisrofe on Sept 3, 2024 9:27:56 GMT
Yes I well remember Malcolm Musgrove, quote Wikipedia ''At West Ham, he soon established himself as a left-winger, making his league debut in 1954 against Brentford. He went on to make 301 league and cup appearances for the Hammers before joining Leyton Orient as player-coach in December 1962. He became chairman of the Professional Footballers' Association in 1962 and remained in the post until his retirement as a player in 1966'' As an aside, Omar Beckles is also the current chairman of the Professional Footballers' Association. Yes well remember Musgrove and god knows what happened to his football form when he joined the Os ? Slow and cumbersome with little to no ball control and completely ineffective when he played on the left wing. He was quite frankly one of the worst players I have ever seen pull the Os shirt on and I reckon the worst import I have ever seen to join Os from our neighbours West Ham and we have had some very good ones, three of my favourites being Dave Dunmore, Peter Brabrook and Peter Bennett !! Bennett, Brabrook and Dunmore - now you’re talking! 👍. Perhaps I am wrong but Musgrove gave the impression to me that his heart was just not in it when playing at the Orient, so different to the attitude of the classy left winger Peter Brabrook who although joining Os late in his career gave the Os a touch of class on the left wing and was fully committed to the cause. What a contrast our two wingers were Mark Lazarus and Peter Brabrook, Lazarus akin to a raiding pirate using the brute force of a Cutlass and Brabrook like nobility choosing the the precise Rapier ! |
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Post by redshank on Sept 3, 2024 9:29:21 GMT
Quite a trio.
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Post by redintheface on Sept 3, 2024 9:33:52 GMT
Bennett, Brabrook and Dunmore - now you’re talking! 👍. Perhaps I am wrong but Musgrove gave the impression to me that his heart was just not in it when playing at the Orient, so different to the attitude of the classy left winger Peter Brabrook who although joining Os late in his career gave the Os a touch of class on the left wing and was fully committed to the cause. What a contrast our two wingers were Mark Lazarus and Peter Brabrook, Lazarus akin to a raiding pirate using the brute force of a Cutlass and Brabrook like nobility choosing the the precise Rapier ! Looking back I would imagine the crowd turning on Musgrove as they did would have been a factor. I seem to remember he did score a few goals in away games when maybe he was more at ease. Certainly wasn’t a favourite of my old man I can assure you!😆 |
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