danisho
Raymond The Roller
Posts: 4
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Post by danisho on Dec 21, 2014 8:21:24 GMT
Hi all
New to this forum so apologies if this subject is already running in another thread. Living in Denmark I never really get to see any of the O's games so I can't tell how the team is playing, but obviously the results are a far away from last year's level. Do we have any good reasons for that?
Did we sell significant players without replacements? Or is it mostly due to disappointment about the loss in the P/O final and loss of confidence (I off course know we lost the manager a while ago)?
Did we expect to move up this year or what were the realistic pre-season expectations?
What will happen if we go down? Straight back up again or major crisis?
Again, sorry if this has been debated like a million times.
Regards, Danish O
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Post by mayland0s on Dec 21, 2014 9:26:53 GMT
Firstly the players we signed have not turned up for the party and have been a waste of money.The 2 keepers are as bad as each other with at least 2 big mistakes in them every game. Secondly there has been no consistency in the owners of the club who have torn out the heart and replaced it with 3rd and 4th class Italian staff with none or little experience(let alone not being able to speak the language) of the English football league. No one can see where the next win is coming from,if any,and relegation seems inevitable.
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Post by aussieorient on Dec 21, 2014 11:18:47 GMT
Let's not paint all new players with the same brush, lowry has been our best back maybe even our best player so far, even so Henderson has done what no other strikers have done yet and that's score goals,
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Post by kbola on Dec 21, 2014 12:02:36 GMT
Hi Danisho,
For me although it is popular to blame the owners I am not sure there was anything else they could do other than what they have done. Slade wanted to go, maybe making Milanese manager was a mistake and we will see if Liverani can turn it around.
It is the players who have completely underperformed this season. I can't blame the new players as, apart from MacAnuff who doesn't look interested, they have tried when fit. I can't say it is just because Moses Odubajo left as he was very important but Orient weren't a one man team last season.
It is the poor form of Orient's spine, goalkeepers, defenders, midfield combined with unlucky injuries to people such as Lloyd James that has caused this dip.
Where is the Cox, Vincelot, Baudry, Omosuzi, Mooney of last season? I think the Wembley defeat affected them more than anyone thinks and they need to buck up soon or Orient are relegated and I doubt will bounce back any time soon.
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Post by MungO on Dec 21, 2014 12:26:15 GMT
A lack of guidance right from the very top, to us supporters at the bottom.
Becchetti doesn't seem to know whether he wants us to be a successful football club or TV show.
Milanese was appointed to run the footballing side of things, this irked Slade and whether he left or was pushed out, you can't blame him.
Milanese wants to be involved but isn't sure what he should be doing. No British manager will work with this current setup.
Slade / Nugent / Milanese / Liverani also have had no guidance or clarification on the boundaries of their roles.
Dearden - GK Coach / Head Scout - Dearden has left because he couldn't work with the setup too. He must have been recomending players that Milanese / Liverani / Becchetti wouldn't touch.
The players - They must be shot to pieces, one week one thing, next week another, new coaches coming and going, ranting and raving through a translator, the whole thing just seems absurd.
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Post by MungO on Dec 21, 2014 12:28:55 GMT
And then that leaves us.. the supporters. We also have no guidance.
What is the owner up to? What does he want with us? What is this TV show all about? Why are they playing matches on the first team pitch? Why the xenophobia against British players and management? The lies, the talking on the train, Milanese, the Dearden situation, replacing the British coaches with Italian ones, what does Nugent do?
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Post by mayland0s on Dec 21, 2014 14:17:29 GMT
And then that leaves us.. the supporters. We also have no guidance. What is the owner up to? What does he want with us? What is this TV show all about? Why are they playing matches on the first team pitch? Why the xenophobia against British players and management? The lies, the talking on the train, Milanese, the Dearden situation, replacing the British coaches with Italian ones, what does Nugent do? Well done MungO,you have summed it up perfectly in both post's.Some people on this board keep saying let's wait and see but it will be too late and not just for this season but the future of the club.
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danisho
Raymond The Roller
Posts: 4
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Post by danisho on Dec 21, 2014 15:08:26 GMT
Wow - sounds even worse than I thought. Mismanagement seems to be the key - lack of strategy, bad (or no) leadership and a fundamental misconception of what it means to run an English club, yup that's bound to go wrong. Hope they won't leave the club in a financial mess when they realize what they've done and want to get out.
What's the TV show about?
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Post by MungO on Dec 21, 2014 15:43:13 GMT
That's the problem, nobody seems to know.
From what we can gather, it's a talent show aired on Albanian TV in Italian.
Looking at some clips on YouTube it looks as though they are matches at Brisbane Road and then the management team judge them and eventually one will be offered a contract. The worry is that whoever the manager is at that point will be pressured into playing the winner, to the detriment of the team and upsetting the balance again.
In our situation I'd rather the management team concentrated on the first team.
Financially I'm not too concerned, as Becchetti has put his hand in his pocket and delivered the funds he promised.
What worries me is that the decisions being made aren't for the benefit of the football club. They're for a viewing audience. Hence the Italian manager, Italian coaches, Italian players, plus when our squad start departing in January they will be replaced by more aged Italian stars.
We've actually been here before with Hearn, when he signed Shilton, Scowcroft and Ray Wilkins. Signing fading stars don't make a team.
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Post by mayland0s on Dec 21, 2014 17:46:46 GMT
That's the problem, nobody seems to know. From what we can gather, it's a talent show aired on Albanian TV in Italian. Looking at some clips on YouTube it looks as though they are matches at Brisbane Road and then the management team judge them and eventually one will be offered a contract. The worry is that whoever the manager is at that point will be pressured into playing the winner, to the detriment of the team and upsetting the balance again. In our situation I'd rather the management team concentrated on the first team. Financially I'm not too concerned, as Becchetti has put his hand in his pocket and delivered the funds he promised. What worries me is that the decisions being made aren't for the benefit of the football club. They're for a viewing audience. Hence the Italian manager, Italian coaches, Italian players, plus when our squad start departing in January they will be replaced by more aged Italian stars. We've actually been here before with Hearn, when he signed Shilton, Scowcroft and Ray Wilkins. Signing fading stars don't make a team. Not quite right mungO,at least they weren't all signed together in the same season.
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Post by MungO on Dec 21, 2014 18:16:08 GMT
Point taken.
Having experience definitely helps, having aged stars don't help anyone.
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Post by Ramrod on Dec 21, 2014 18:25:02 GMT
As pointed out above, our demise this season is really down to a combination of factors, some of which were or are beyond anybody's control.
At the same time, top management in the form of Becchetti clearly hasn't got a clue about communication or keeping the fans onside and doesn't seem in the least bothered about it either. That's very disappointing and doesn't bode well.
Having said that, our only hope is that he really is in for the long term because in the short term (this season) it's getting to look like we're sunk.
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Post by MungO on Dec 21, 2014 19:03:14 GMT
I'd like to add that it also looks like a bit of a pals act.
Plasmati had Dossena had both been without a club for a long period. Plasmati for about 8 months I think. That speaks volumes about their quality.
Likewise Liverani hasn't had a management role in over a year.
Weve had lots of Italian trialists too, Slade bombed some of them out early on in the season and pre-season. I suppose that didn't help his cause, if Milanese is bringing players over that the manager doesn't want. Nugent and Liverani probably haven't a leg to stand on in terms of signings. That's why Dearden has left as Chief Scout.
Very much the pals act going on. Also talk of a 38 year old centre back joining us. Currently out of contract. That's exactly what we need to address our lack of pace in the squad.
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Post by kbola on Dec 21, 2014 20:19:34 GMT
I'd like to add that it also looks like a bit of a pals act. Plasmati had Dossena had both been without a club for a long period. Plasmati for about 8 months I think. That speaks volumes about their quality. Likewise Liverani hasn't had a management role in over a year. Weve had lots of Italian trialists too, Slade bombed some of them out early on in the season and pre-season. I suppose that didn't help his cause, if Milanese is bringing players over that the manager doesn't want. Nugent and Liverani probably haven't a leg to stand on in terms of signings. That's why Dearden has left as Chief Scout. Very much the pals act going on. Also talk of a 38 year old centre back joining us. Currently out of contract. That's exactly what we need to address our lack of pace in the squad. A 38 year old centre back? Let's hope it's true when they say that the first yard is in the mind of the experienced player
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Post by Ramrod on Dec 21, 2014 22:33:13 GMT
Becchetti's Putinesque obsession with all things Italian is very worrying. He has no idea about football, which I'm sure he'd be the first to admit, but he's creating his own learning curve as he goes along, and we're the victims. His minions, while honest and probably doing their best, are not rocking the boat, presumably because it's better than working. By the time he wakes up to reality we'll be in div. 2.
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Post by aussieorient on Dec 21, 2014 22:35:19 GMT
Dearden was punted as he was rubbish, two biggest faults this season have been goalkeeping, and the fact we brought two new ones(he would of recommended them as scout) means he had no leg to stand on,
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 23:07:32 GMT
Dearden was punted as he was rubbish, two biggest faults this season have been goalkeeping, and the fact we brought two new ones(he would of recommended them as scout) means he had no leg to stand on, So true. A good keeper must be the priorty in the transfer window.
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Post by aussieorient on Dec 22, 2014 5:33:45 GMT
Very very true, a good keeper is worth 10-15 points a season, difference between mid table and playoffs,
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Post by harlowo on Dec 22, 2014 21:30:04 GMT
One of the main differences for me is team spirit or lack of it. Last season I got the impression the players would run through brick walls for each other and for Slade, but this season that seems to have gone.
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Post by aussieorient on Dec 22, 2014 21:42:28 GMT
I sence that too, I look at the highlights and see when we score a goal not many people go over to the goal scorer to celebrate anymore,
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