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Post by redintheface on Mar 7, 2021 12:02:47 GMT
Personally, I think you overrate the “ interim manager” effect. There is so little job security for the vast majority of managers and coaches in the game that almost anyone who signs for a club nowadays must expect to see a change at the top if results do not pan out as expected. 11 clubs in our Division alone have changed their manager since the season began! Whilst it might be overrated because of the lack job security, a player is more likely sign for another club with a manager who sets out his vision than a club who currently will be going into next season without a manager. It’s utterly bizarre how this club is dealing with these new contracts. They make a point of talking about Jobi being a manager but this squad is run by the DoF and the transfer committee in reality. In fairness, as manager, McAnuff is of course part of the transfer committee. That said, management by committee rarely works in my experience but it’s part of the “ unique culture” that has been installed at the club.
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Post by refugee on Mar 7, 2021 12:33:23 GMT
Whilst it might be overrated because of the lack job security, a player is more likely sign for another club with a manager who sets out his vision than a club who currently will be going into next season without a manager. It’s utterly bizarre how this club is dealing with these new contracts. They make a point of talking about Jobi being a manager but this squad is run by the DoF and the transfer committee in reality. In fairness, as manager, McAnuff is of course part of the transfer committee. That said, management by committee rarely works in my experience but it’s part of the “ unique culture” that has been installed at the club. He’s not. Martin Ling specifically said the other day that Jobi won’t have a say as the manager.
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Post by MungO on Mar 7, 2021 12:37:32 GMT
In fairness, as manager, McAnuff is of course part of the transfer committee. That said, management by committee rarely works in my experience but it’s part of the “ unique culture” that has been installed at the club. He’s not. Martin Ling specifically said the other day that Jobi won’t have a say as the manager. While he is interim.
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Post by Fisch on Mar 7, 2021 12:40:49 GMT
I thought we'd already got him signed. Time flies. It will be interesting to see what happens. Six months ago, most of us thought Dan would likely be head-hunted by somebody further up the leagues, now I'm less convinced. If pushed, I'd guess he will still go higher with his new club thinking they could iron out his weaker point/s and improve him into what they want, he clearly is a talent. Charlton said as much about Bonne - and then sold him, perhaps they got a good payout from QPR? I don't recall the details.
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Post by MungO on Mar 7, 2021 12:49:43 GMT
Personally, I think you overrate the “ interim manager” effect. There is so little job security for the vast majority of managers and coaches in the game that almost anyone who signs for a club nowadays must expect to see a change at the top if results do not pan out as expected. 11 clubs in our Division alone have changed their manager since the season began! Whilst it might be overrated because of the lack job security, a player is more likely sign for another club with a manager who sets out his vision than a club who currently will be going into next season without a manager. It’s utterly bizarre how this club is dealing with these new contracts. They make a point of talking about Jobi being a manager but this squad is run by the DoF and the transfer committee in reality. The big big issue I have with this DoF setup is that if we had a style or system then you could quite rightly take someone out the set-up and carry on without them. But what is our style and what is our system? Passing under Davis, Gritty under Justin, Passing under Embleton, Direct under Jobi. I think Ling has definitely brought in good players but they were players that suited the Manager at the time. So Ross had Justin's players, now Jobi has Ross' players. So having said all that and in our current set-up it should be Ling who is buying the players and sorting the contracts. He must then select the right Manager or Coach to get the best out of them. Personally I feel it's all arse about face and if you had a decent Manager they'd tell you what is needed. As Tisdale mentioned in that article the other week, this entire set-up is mainly in place because the Manager can't be trusted with signings and would only look at things short term to sort his immediate needs (understandable when a managers tenure is only 11 months long). To be honest. It's an absolute clusterf*** for a club at our level. If we want and have a burning desire to have a DoF then fine but let them deal with the academies, woman's football, partnerships and all that. And just let the Manager manage the first team.
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Post by refugee on Mar 7, 2021 13:03:47 GMT
Whilst it might be overrated because of the lack job security, a player is more likely sign for another club with a manager who sets out his vision than a club who currently will be going into next season without a manager. It’s utterly bizarre how this club is dealing with these new contracts. They make a point of talking about Jobi being a manager but this squad is run by the DoF and the transfer committee in reality. The big big issue I have with this DoF setup is that if we had a style or system then you could quite rightly take someone out the set-up and carry on without them. But what is our style and what is our system? Passing under Davis, Gritty under Justin, Passing under Embleton, Direct under Jobi. I think Ling has definitely brought in good players but they were players that suited the Manager at the time. So Ross had Justin's players, now Jobi has Ross' players. So having said all that and in our current set-up it should be Ling who is buying the players and sorting the contracts. He must then select the right Manager or Coach to get the best out of them. Personally I feel it's all arse about face and if you had a decent Manager they'd tell you what is needed. As Tisdale mentioned in that article the other week, this entire set-up is mainly in place because the Manager can't be trusted with signings and would only look at things short term to sort his immediate needs (understandable when a managers tenure is only 11 months long). To be honest. It's an absolute clusterf*** for a club at our level. If we want and have a burning desire to have a DoF then fine but let them deal with the academies, woman's football, partnerships and all that. And just let the Manager manage the first team. Totally agree. DoF works at clubs where they have a vision from top to bottom about what the club is. From style of football to whether we bring youth players through to sell at a profit. The only vision at Orient is ‘league 1 in the next 6 years’. We either get players a manager wants or we get a manager to use what Martin Ling wants. We can’t have it both ways. As for the post above, I know it’s whilst Jobi is interim but there’s a huge chance he stays interim until May. At that point, players would have decided whether to stay or go.
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Post by MungO on Mar 7, 2021 13:08:09 GMT
And that's why I wish we hadn't gone all interim again. Like the Fletcher fiasco.
What we should have done is put Jobi as caretaker while we explore other options. In the meantime if Jobi does well he's in the frame.
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Post by ramblingman on Mar 7, 2021 13:14:47 GMT
Does seem that our form really nose-dived once contract talks started. Wonder if a combination of players offered no where near what they think they are worth and been told they are being released has seen a knock-on effect. Yes but surely the same also true of other clubs? Unless Nige is sticking unilaterally to the salary cap....
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Post by MungO on Mar 7, 2021 13:17:30 GMT
Does seem that our form really nose-dived once contract talks started. Wonder if a combination of players offered no where near what they think they are worth and been told they are being released has seen a knock-on effect. Yes but surely the same also true of other clubs? Unless Nige is sticking unilaterally to the salary cap.... I think it's because it's 20 or something of the 25 players. If it was half and half then I wouldn't expect it to be so bad. But it's the overwhelming majority and practically all of the handful of players you'd want to keep. Personally I think I'd let them all go and start again.
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Post by ramblingman on Mar 7, 2021 13:26:43 GMT
Yes but surely the same also true of other clubs? Unless Nige is sticking unilaterally to the salary cap.... I think it's because it's 20 or something of the 25 players. If it was half and half then I wouldn't expect it to be so bad. But it's the overwhelming majority and practically all of the handful of players you'd want to keep. Personally I think I'd let them all go and start again. Might be something in that. We have had a very unbalanced squad for quite a while. Too many 'not sure what their best position is' forwards and not enough rock steady defenders.
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Post by redintheface on Mar 7, 2021 15:00:41 GMT
In fairness, as manager, McAnuff is of course part of the transfer committee. That said, management by committee rarely works in my experience but it’s part of the “ unique culture” that has been installed at the club. He’s not. Martin Ling specifically said the other day that Jobi won’t have a say as the manager. My error 😳
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Post by MungO on Mar 7, 2021 15:10:04 GMT
Which does and doesn't make sense.
It makes sense as he's only here for 16 games so why is his opinion important.
It doesn't make sense because if he's here longer I'm sure he'd need to be involved and have a say in next season whether or not he is interim or whatever.
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Post by refugee on Mar 7, 2021 15:31:57 GMT
It worries me that they don’t know how the club will look come 1st July when they’re back in training.
If Jobi is the guy they want, give it to him now and let him convince the players he wants/be in sole charge of picking a list of who he wants to bring in. If he isn’t, they need to be talking to people they want or working out a shortlist of the person they think is most suited. They’re playing this ‘lets have a punt’ and living in limbo card for the 3rd time.
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Post by tuffers on Mar 7, 2021 16:20:56 GMT
ling is the problem imo and the source of the rubbish managers
who might apply with the restrictions on jobi - have to work with existing coaches, not involved in transfer or contracts most likely the inexperienced managers who need to start their careers we arent at the desperate stage where we were with justin which meant it was us not the incoming manager that had to make concessions
the board would be scared of another fletcher outsider coming in, i wouldnt blame them if they have lost confidence in his ability to get a manager, if jobi bombs that means only 1 of his 6 decisions has worked out
we needed him at the start, owners knew nothing about football after the italians you could not trust anyone nobody else at the club to help do the work to sign players, we needed a whole squad
where are we now? owners now have 4 years experience and know how it works we have jobi as manager, a trustable orient figure danny macklin as ceo who by all accounts is very competent more coaches than most other league team
so i think ling is surplus to requirements and should go give macklin the budget controls and he is the owners go-between put lings salary into the manager budget
some fans have been brainwashed into thinking that without ling we cant sign players but any established manager would have his own list of players and scouting contacts
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Post by dohnut on Mar 7, 2021 17:18:22 GMT
He’s not. Martin Ling specifically said the other day that Jobi won’t have a say as the manager. My error 😳 No say at this time. He has bigger things on his mind. But in due course he may well have. Probably will should his position look likely to be permanent. It would be madness not to include him. Much of what Ling says is about him trying to maintain the perception he remains in charge. Like him recommending Jobi. Whilst in the past his recommendations carry the day, in the case of Jobi, the decision was with Travis and Teague 100%. His opinion was invited, no more. He didn’t oppose the appointment. That’s it. What goes with it is Ling trying to establish a pecking order. A footnote is of course being that if Jobi doesn’t work out, don’t add it to Ling’s list of failures. This one is not down to him.
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Post by Fisch on Mar 7, 2021 17:49:07 GMT
No say at this time. He has bigger things on his mind. But in due course he may well have. Probably will should his position look likely to be permanent. It would be madness not to include him. Much of what Ling says is about him trying to maintain the perception he remains in charge. Like him recommending Jobi. Whilst in the past his recommendations carry the day, in the case of Jobi, the decision was with Travis and Teague 100%. His opinion was invited, no more. He didn’t oppose the appointment. That’s it. What goes with it is Ling trying to establish a pecking order. A footnote is of course being that if Jobi doesn’t work out, don’t add it to Ling’s list of failures. This one is not down to him. I heard ML say that but thought it was a slip of the tongue. If it wasn't then Jobi has Ross's players and will sink or swim with what he can achieve with them. If he falls, he'll rightly say he was set up to fail. All he has is a long shot at success with an increasingly dispirited group. I'm reminded of a quote by Virgil Tibbs (Heat of the night) when asked why a black fella is leading a local murder investigation in 1960s Mississippi , he said "they need a whipping boy".
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Post by dohnut on Mar 7, 2021 18:10:25 GMT
No say at this time. He has bigger things on his mind. But in due course he may well have. Probably will should his position look likely to be permanent. It would be madness not to include him. Much of what Ling says is about him trying to maintain the perception he remains in charge. Like him recommending Jobi. Whilst in the past his recommendations carry the day, in the case of Jobi, the decision was with Travis and Teague 100%. His opinion was invited, no more. He didn’t oppose the appointment. That’s it. What goes with it is Ling trying to establish a pecking order. A footnote is of course being that if Jobi doesn’t work out, don’t add it to Ling’s list of failures. This one is not down to him. I heard ML say that but thought it was a slip of the tongue. If it wasn't then Jobi has Ross's players and will sink or swim with what he can achieve with them. If he falls, he'll rightly say he was set up to fail. All he has is a long shot at success with an increasingly dispirited group. I'm reminded of a quote by Virgil Tibbs (Heat of the night) when asked why a black fella is leading a local murder investigation in 1960s Mississippi , he said "they need a whipping boy". Don’t see Jobi as anyone’s whipping boy. He is nobodies fool. We forget, Jobi may decide he don’t want the job. He has other things to do. Not all about what the club decide. But I expect him to do well, not play offs, but well enough. Would be very surprised if he doesn’t get offered the job.
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Post by Fisch on Mar 7, 2021 20:38:45 GMT
Really hope so.
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Post by disoriented on Mar 7, 2021 20:44:17 GMT
Jobi is the real deal. If it doesn’t work for him here, he will succeed somewhere else.
Simple really.
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