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Post by watfordo on Feb 25, 2024 13:03:28 GMT
I struggle with two things here. And accept some may choose to ignore or disagree with. Fine. 1 For a manager to have true passion he needs to accumulate Red Cards to prove it. That of course is nonsense, it’s not a sign of passion but a lack of self control. Do we believe for 1 second other managers are less passionate because they have not been red carded. 2 some Supporters cannot understand that the game of a player on a yellow or close to accumulating enough for a ban could suffer. We’ve even seen players substituted on a yellow as a precaution. Evidence right there of cards affecting games. It is wrong to solely assess the impact of a yellow on bans. We all of course know this to be true. 3 The actions of a leader have impact on the players. This of course is harder to demonstrate. But the clue is in the word Leader. Someone who sets the standards for others to follow. Deep down I believe many views on the actions of RW are borne, not out of common sense, but a sense of loyalty. I understand that. But I also believe that the true loyalty of leadership and something NT has shown of late is to deal with issues in a positive way with top management. Allowing such things to go unchecked is not showing loyalty, far from it. It is disrespectful to the very person you want to grow. I didnt get past the first point, point 1, mainly because your framing is completely and deliberately inaccurate. No one said this or hinted at it.
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Post by mujtahido on Feb 25, 2024 13:11:16 GMT
Regarding RW as the saying goes you show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser.I love his passion his little digs at people keep em coming Richie
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Post by dohnut on Feb 25, 2024 16:15:13 GMT
I struggle with two things here. And accept some may choose to ignore or disagree with. Fine. 1 For a manager to have true passion he needs to accumulate Red Cards to prove it. That of course is nonsense, it’s not a sign of passion but a lack of self control. Do we believe for 1 second other managers are less passionate because they have not been red carded. 2 some Supporters cannot understand that the game of a player on a yellow or close to accumulating enough for a ban could suffer. We’ve even seen players substituted on a yellow as a precaution. Evidence right there of cards affecting games. It is wrong to solely assess the impact of a yellow on bans. We all of course know this to be true. 3 The actions of a leader have impact on the players. This of course is harder to demonstrate. But the clue is in the word Leader. Someone who sets the standards for others to follow. Deep down I believe many views on the actions of RW are borne, not out of common sense, but a sense of loyalty. I understand that. But I also believe that the true loyalty of leadership and something NT has shown of late is to deal with issues in a positive way with top management. Allowing such things to go unchecked is not showing loyalty, far from it. It is disrespectful to the very person you want to grow. I didnt get past the first point, point 1, mainly because your framing is completely and deliberately inaccurate. No one said this or hinted at it. Not getting past the first point explains a lot. Seems a habit you have. At least I do posters the respect of reading it all even if I disagree. Open mind. Now I understand you. 👍 PS just for you I’ve changed the framing. Diddums. 😂😂😂. Maybe you can read it now.
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Post by Thor on Feb 25, 2024 17:29:16 GMT
Dohnut, you make some good points, but I feel you are trying to analyse RW against your business background. You can't, the two don't interact or work in the same way.
Would RW get away with his "behaviour" in the work place? No he wouldn't.
Look at Sir Alex, Mourinho, Conte, Klopp, and on and on I could go. RW shows the same emotions as they did or do, he is a winner like they are. Were all their teams beset by bad behaviour? Loads of suspensions etc? We've had one suspension this year so we are not in your words losing control of ourselves. We are professional in our approach and yes we do under the current laws and enforcement probably push it to its limits, nothing wrong in that.
RW has the opportunity to be crowed the greatest manager we've ever had. I know he will take us to the championship, I believe he will keep us in there, maybe against the skin of our teeth, but survive we will.
What defines him from what we see? Passion, energy, commitment, dedication, preparation and a few more coukd be added. Do I want him to change? No way, not now not ever, it's what makes him special, what defines him faults and all.
We have a winner running the football side of the club, let's encourage him to push us onwards, upwards and forwards as we are watching something very special happening before our very eyes.
Enjoy it whilst you can cos you never know what you'll end up with, we know what we have now and it's bloody brilliant.
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Post by watfordo on Feb 25, 2024 17:46:22 GMT
I didnt get past the first point, point 1, mainly because your framing is completely and deliberately inaccurate. No one said this or hinted at it. Not getting past the first point explains a lot. Seems a habit you have. At least I do posters the respect of reading it all even if I disagree. Open mind. Now I understand you. 👍 PS just for you I’ve changed the framing. Diddums. 😂😂😂. Maybe you can read it now. Oh do FO.
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Post by alfresco on Feb 25, 2024 17:48:52 GMT
To me, Richie is the greatest manager this club has EVER had. One day he'll be gone, and then it will gradually dawn on some people just what we had, and how bloody good he was. For now, while he's here, for me, he can do no wrong. What he's forgotten about football, most others have still to learn. Yesterday's red card was harsh beyond words. It's always annoyed me, that an incomplete ref, can do something like this, and boy was that ref incompetent. Richie gets so into it, he can't think. I love Richie, and he can do anything and I'll never complain. After years and years of mediocre managers, over many years, I'm so happy to have Richie here
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Post by buffalobill on Feb 25, 2024 20:57:53 GMT
If the players pay their own fines, I guess Richie will pay his, so there will come a point when he decides to count to ten and let things go.
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Post by dohnut on Feb 25, 2024 22:44:22 GMT
Not getting past the first point explains a lot. Seems a habit you have. At least I do posters the respect of reading it all even if I disagree. Open mind. Now I understand you. 👍 PS just for you I’ve changed the framing. Diddums. 😂😂😂. Maybe you can read it now. Oh do FO. I treat posters like adults. I give people credit for intelligence. I don’t talk down to people. I read the opinion of others and think about their views. My style maybe business-like but after 30 years as a senior manager in large corporate organisations that’s hard to change, for that I apologise. Importantly I acknowledge the good points made by others. I’m happy to learn. I welcome the opinions of others, I thirst for knowledge. I love the opinions from those with experience . One of very few willing to accept I get things wrong. But, and it’s a big but, I will argue my corner. I Stand up for what I believe to be correct. I have the balls to argue my case. And my experience in man management far exceeds that of the current Orient coaches outside the owners. So give me credit too. I’ve been round the block and back. Got the scars. If that irritates you there is nothing I can do about that. You either close your mind due to prejudice or open it to the big wide world.
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Post by watfordo on Feb 25, 2024 22:46:13 GMT
I treat posters like adults. I give people credit for intelligence. I don’t talk down to people. I read the opinion of others and think about their views. My style maybe business-like but after 30 years as a senior manager in large corporate organisations that’s hard to change, for that I apologise. Importantly I acknowledge the good points made by others. I’m happy to learn. I welcome the opinions of others, I thirst for knowledge. I love the opinions from those with experience . One of very few willing to accept I get things wrong. But, and it’s a big but, I will argue my corner. I Stand up for what I believe to be correct. I have the balls to argue my case. And my experience in man management far exceeds that of the current Orient coaches outside the owners. So give me credit too. I’ve been round the block and back. Got the scars. If that irritates you there is nothing I can do about that. You either close your mind due to prejudice or open it to the big wide world. Really? Senior manager and all? Its not like you ever mention it…
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Post by dohnut on Feb 25, 2024 23:04:39 GMT
I treat posters like adults. I give people credit for intelligence. I don’t talk down to people. I read the opinion of others and think about their views. My style maybe business-like but after 30 years as a senior manager in large corporate organisations that’s hard to change, for that I apologise. Importantly I acknowledge the good points made by others. I’m happy to learn. I welcome the opinions of others, I thirst for knowledge. I love the opinions from those with experience . One of very few willing to accept I get things wrong. But, and it’s a big but, I will argue my corner. I Stand up for what I believe to be correct. I have the balls to argue my case. And my experience in man management far exceeds that of the current Orient coaches outside the owners. So give me credit too. I’ve been round the block and back. Got the scars. If that irritates you there is nothing I can do about that. You either close your mind due to prejudice or open it to the big wide world. Really? Senior manager and all? Its not like you ever mention it… Grates doesn’t it. Don’t change the facts. Last company had a turnover of $15 billion and my personal budget ran into many millions. Decisions that affected the lives of hundreds. More indirectly. Involved in contracts worth £30 million pa. You think I should apologise? Why should I. Worked my b******* off to achieve after leaving school with two O’levels and not ashamed to say I’m f***ing proud of what this east end kid achieved after starting life in a prefab. I have learned one thing in all this. The value of listening. The realisation that people can come up with ideas that are great, not the sole domain of the board. An open mind is a wonderful thing. Respect for people is a wonderful thing. Don't ignore people because you wound not choose them as friends. I’ve experienced the rough streets of Stepney and the comfort of a well furnished office.
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Post by watfordo on Feb 26, 2024 5:16:50 GMT
It doesnt grate in the way you think it does or perhaps the way you hope it might. Its just that you mention it alllllll the time. You use it as a weapon to bully a conversation and roll it out to silence anyone that might disagree, or as a justification to any point you feel needs foundation or when you want to simply elevate yourself. In my opinion, of course. I get it. You used to be important and want everyone to know.
We all have our stories. I have mine. We all should be rightly proud of them. Yours, however rags to riches, doesnt make you any better than any of us, even though you so obviously and gratingly think it does. I cant believe I am the first to have pointed any of this out to you. Youre obviously a reasonably intelligent man.
I suspect that if we went for a pint we might even get along but I also suspect that by the end of it I would know everything about you whereas you wouldnt even remember my name.
This part of the conversation ends here, from my side at least.l
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Post by eca on Feb 26, 2024 6:22:29 GMT
RW has a successful history in an industry that is exceptionally hard to be successful. I think he will reflect and decide if his pitch side manner of attracting red cards is appropriate in the bigger picture of lofc and his career reputation. The problem of the inferior quality of referees is now common to read on other clubs match reports . This is a result business which needs consistent quality in the match officials. Unfortunately in this Oxford match I saw on line many wrong referee and lineman’s mistakes which I assume was a prelude to RW action. Goal kicks that were corners and vica versa did not help matters
I hope he continues his wonderful career as a manager hopefully at lofc for some years.
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Post by redintheface on Feb 26, 2024 7:37:34 GMT
In a final effort to get back to the subject - the results are in and the people have spoken !😄 Over half of the respondents feel some kind of ( low level) response is justified by the club. Thanks to those who voted for taking part.👍
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Post by Fisch on Feb 26, 2024 7:41:33 GMT
I do 'get' the "lead by example" nature of that view and agree it has merit. To balance that, l'd quote examples like Don Revie, a mild mannered old school gent who single handedly wiped away any Corinthian legacy in UK football (partly) via the thuggery his Leeds team employed.
Alex Higgins couldn't control his emotions and was forever in trouble. He was a genius but l doubt a single snooker fan was sufficiently influenced to emulate his chaotic lifestyle.
That said, simulation and feigning injury is now embedded in the game and l suggest that came from the clubs and the telly.
I think it's a draw 😁
As for RW, l like him just as he is, he'll get tamed in time but l hope it will not be at the expense of his success.
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Post by harrycat on Feb 26, 2024 8:57:18 GMT
Be kind to each other. The World has enough hate in it.
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Post by dohnut on Feb 26, 2024 9:33:28 GMT
I do 'get' the "lead by example" nature of that view and agree it has merit. To balance that, l'd quote examples like Don Revie, a mild mannered old school gent who single handedly wiped away any Corinthian legacy in UK football (partly) via the thuggery his Leeds team employed. Alex Higgins couldn't control his emotions and was forever in trouble. He was a genius but l doubt a single snooker fan was sufficiently influenced to emulate his chaotic lifestyle. That said, simulation and feigning injury is now embedded in the game and l suggest that came from the clubs and the telly. I think it's a draw 😁 As for RW, l like him just as he is, he'll get tamed in time but l hope it will not be at the expense of his success. Don Revie is a good example, I’m sure there are others. Roy Hodgson perhaps another. Not too sure of the Alex Higgins one, not a leader in a team sport. But I take the point. What the Pros do today the kids do tomorrow, like the taking off of shirts. People can often influence the actions of others, particularly youngsters, all the more reason why those in positions of authority need to take care.
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Post by dohnut on Feb 26, 2024 9:40:43 GMT
Be kind to each other. The World has enough hate in it. The word hate is bandied around a lot these days. Hate, haters stuff. Is it hate? I don’t think so. Just a woke word entering the daily vocabulary of life. Arguing is not hate. Having opposing views is not hate. Teams playing a fiercely contested game is not hate. RW grabbing or trying to grab a player is not hate. The word is over-used and generally out of context.
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Post by redintheface on Feb 26, 2024 15:59:20 GMT
I do 'get' the "lead by example" nature of that view and agree it has merit. To balance that, l'd quote examples like Don Revie, a mild mannered old school gent who single handedly wiped away any Corinthian legacy in UK football (partly) via the thuggery his Leeds team employed. In fairness Fisch, I would say the Leeds Utd of the Revie era also had some extremely good players in it who played some bloody good football.
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Post by Fisch on Feb 26, 2024 16:00:45 GMT
I do 'get' the "lead by example" nature of that view and agree it has merit. To balance that, l'd quote examples like Don Revie, a mild mannered old school gent who single handedly wiped away any Corinthian legacy in UK football (partly) via the thuggery his Leeds team employed. In fairness Fisch, I would say the Leeds Utd of the Revie era also had some extremely good players in it who played some bloody good football. Absolutely they did. Top team for nearly a decade.
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Post by Thor on Feb 26, 2024 16:32:21 GMT
I do 'get' the "lead by example" nature of that view and agree it has merit. To balance that, l'd quote examples like Don Revie, a mild mannered old school gent who single handedly wiped away any Corinthian legacy in UK football (partly) via the thuggery his Leeds team employed. In fairness Fisch, I would say the Leeds Utd of the Revie era also had some extremely good players in it who played some bloody good football. bit before my time, but we're they not called dirty Leeds? As you say a good team by all accounts and I've seen many a video of their thuggery and great play, maybe they balanced themselves out?
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