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Post by viastratford on Aug 25, 2024 16:25:03 GMT
Apart from our keeper’s howlers against Bolton and Birmingham, my biggest frustration and area of worry is how poor we seem to be at moving the ball forward and in making progress up the park. I was struck from the off yesterday at how different Birmingham’s game was from ours. When Birmingham got possession they moved the ball forward every time and seldom passed back. On the other hand, the O’s default position is to pass back. Constantly!
A classic example yesterday was when Obiero did very well to win the ball by Birmingham’s corner flag, yet instead of the ball being sent in towards goal, it was back with Hemming within 30 seconds, simply from a sequence of pass backs. Aaaaaargh!!!!
We constantly go nowhere fast, usually allowing possession eventually to go to the opposition. Why do we have this perpetual, hesitant and fearful style. I personally find it soul destroying to watch. I can’t see us winning any game, (apart maybe occasionally by the odd goal if we get lucky).
We looked much better yesterday after Agyei came on when we finally started playing more positively and I was pleased to see some fight and spirit finally. However, I don’t buy into some of the comments elsewhere suggesting we have not done badly against 3 of the division’s top teams. We lost every one of these games, none of which we looked close to winning, and unless we start playing more positive and dominant football, especially at home, I fear we will be back in league 2 next season.
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Post by alfresco on Aug 25, 2024 17:20:48 GMT
At last, someone else who shares the concerns I've also been posting about.
I truly believe we will be relegated this season, unless major changes happen.
The playing sideways and backwards also drives me mad, plus the lack of quality in the squad.
There's a week left try to change things
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Post by mrb on Aug 25, 2024 17:26:37 GMT
Apart from our keeper’s howlers against Bolton and Birmingham, my biggest frustration and area of worry is how poor we seem to be at moving the ball forward and in making progress up the park. I was struck from the off yesterday at how different Birmingham’s game was from ours. When Birmingham got possession they moved the ball forward every time and seldom passed back. On the other hand, the O’s default position is to pass back. Constantly! A classic example yesterday was when Obiero did very well to win the ball by Birmingham’s corner flag, yet instead of the ball being sent in towards goal, it was back with Hemming within 30 seconds, simply from a sequence of pass backs. Aaaaaargh!!!! We constantly go nowhere fast, usually allowing possession eventually to go to the opposition. Why do we have this perpetual, hesitant and fearful style. I personally find it soul destroying to watch. I can’t see us winning any game, (apart maybe occasionally by the odd goal if we get lucky). We looked much better yesterday after Agyei came on when we finally started playing more positively and I was pleased to see some fight and spirit finally. However, I don’t buy into some of the comments elsewhere suggesting we have not done badly against 3 of the division’s top teams. We lost every one of these games, none of which we looked close to winning, and unless we start playing more positive and dominant football, especially at home, I fear we will be back in league 2 next season. Good assessment..But the main word you used was “ fearful” It certainly appears that way..It’s as if they are scared to make a mistake |
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Post by mujtahido on Aug 25, 2024 17:40:11 GMT
At last, someone else who shares the concerns I've also been posting about. I truly believe we will be relegated this season, unless major changes happen. The playing sideways and backwards also drives me mad, plus the lack of quality in the squad. There's a week left try to change things No chance we'll be relegated as long as RW is in charge.Our play yesterday and against Bolton was very good.We will comfortably finish mid table.Wellens is in my opinion the best manager we've had in the 50 years I've been supporting thd O's.If you think we'll get relegated then fair enough but we must be watching a different team to each other |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2024 20:15:43 GMT
Some facts I hope might help you keep the sheets dry:
Everyone knew our start to the season would be tough the day the fixtures were published. So far we've played 3 of the 4 favourites to win the league. A lot of people thought we'd be on the wrong end of a pasting yesterday. Instead we've lost 3 tough games by a single goal -- and not by parking the bus either.
The "moving the ball forward" complaint has been rolled out constantly under Richie. It was a point laboured when we won League 2 and again when we finished mid-table as a newly promoted side.
At this point last season we'd conceded 6 having also scored 2 goals. And we hadn't played any teams valued at 45 million quid.
So why don't we at least see how it goes against a team we can reasonably expect to beat before tipping ourselves for relegation, eh?
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Post by viastratford on Aug 25, 2024 20:27:41 GMT
At last, someone else who shares the concerns I've also been posting about. I truly believe we will be relegated this season, unless major changes happen. The playing sideways and backwards also drives me mad, plus the lack of quality in the squad. There's a week left try to change things No chance we'll be relegated as long as RW is in charge.Our play yesterday and against Bolton was very good.We will comfortably finish mid table.Wellens is in my opinion the best manager we've had in the 50 years I've been supporting thd O's.If you think we'll get relegated then fair enough but we must be watching a different team to each other I hope you’re right Mujtahido. I agree Ritchie is an excellent manager, but he is limited by the squad he has and the difficulties in bringing in quality on the club’s modest budget. He’s no fool, he will be as concerned, for example, by the goalkeeping situation like the rest of us, but it doesn’t look as if he can easily improve it. Not sure if we are, as you say, looking at different games and yes, we have decent moments but overall: our keeper has caused the loss of most of our conceded goals, (that’s got to be a major confidence sapper for any side and a massive disadvantage), we have no personality or ‘driver’ in our team (a Dean Cox or a Nathan Clark for example), we’ve not looked like winning, have lost our first three and we are playing a negative system that suggests a mindset of fear, so I struggle to see where your confidence is coming from, albeit I truly hope you will prove me wrong. My personal hope is that things will improve when the likes of Archibald and Graham return from injury, and perhaps we can get a decent loanee keeper last minute. |
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Post by dohnut on Aug 25, 2024 20:39:36 GMT
No chance we'll be relegated as long as RW is in charge.Our play yesterday and against Bolton was very good.We will comfortably finish mid table.Wellens is in my opinion the best manager we've had in the 50 years I've been supporting thd O's.If you think we'll get relegated then fair enough but we must be watching a different team to each other I hope you’re right Mujtahido. I agree Ritchie is an excellent manager, but he is limited by the squad he has and the difficulties in bringing in quality on the club’s modest budget. He’s no fool, he will be as concerned, for example, by the goalkeeping situation like the rest of us, but it doesn’t look as if he can easily improve it. Not sure if we are, as you say, looking at different games and yes, we have decent moments but overall: our keeper has caused the loss of most of our conceded goals, (that’s got to be a major confidence sapper for any side and a massive disadvantage), we have no personality or ‘driver’ in our team (a Dean Cox or a Nathan Clark for example), we’ve not looked like winning, have lost our first three and we are playing a negative system that suggests a mindset of fear, so I struggle to see where your confidence is coming from, albeit I truly hope you will prove me wrong. My personal hope is that things will improve when the likes of Archibald and Graham return from injury, and perhaps we can get a decent loanee keeper last minute. I remember the same positive comments for when Agyie returns, then he is on the bench. |
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Post by Fisch on Aug 25, 2024 22:47:02 GMT
I believe Dan A was benched to manage his minutes/fitness although perhaps a change of attacking ideas may have had an influence.
I agree somewhat with the "fearful" comment, Brum learned early on that O'Neill wasn't going to hurt them despite most of us probably believing he could if only he'd go for it.
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Post by alfresco on Aug 26, 2024 9:00:25 GMT
At last, someone else who shares the concerns I've also been posting about. I truly believe we will be relegated this season, unless major changes happen. The playing sideways and backwards also drives me mad, plus the lack of quality in the squad. There's a week left try to change things No chance we'll be relegated as long as RW is in charge.Our play yesterday and against Bolton was very good.We will comfortably finish mid table.Wellens is in my opinion the best manager we've had in the 50 years I've been supporting thd O's.If you think we'll get relegated then fair enough but we must be watching a different team to each other I'm not disputing for a minute, that Richie is the best manager we've had in 50 years, the problem is, the lack of numbers in the squad, and the lack of quality. If you were to put the best jockey ever born, on a poor horse, he'll never win no matter how good the jockey is Even though we were pretty good against Bolton & Birmingham, we still lost. Every year teams get relegated that aren't that bad, but they just seem to find a way to lose. Unless we bring in some real quality this coming week, we will probably go down . It grieves me to say that, but ive always been a realist, and logic tells me that has a good chance of happening |
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Post by redintheface on Aug 26, 2024 9:03:59 GMT
I believe Dan A was benched to manage his minutes/fitness although perhaps a change of attacking ideas may have had an influence. I agree somewhat with the "fearful" comment, Brum learned early on that O'Neill wasn't going to hurt them despite most of us probably believing he could if only he'd go for it. Kind of begs the question Fisch; what is it that is making the players “ fearful”?🤔 |
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Post by zimo on Aug 26, 2024 9:28:02 GMT
I also believe we will struggle to stay up this year, I thought El Mizouni in midfield papered over a lot of the obvious cracks in the squad. At the start of the window we needed to sort out the full back positions, centre forward, goalkeeper and a replacement for El Mizouni (or as near to a replacement as possible)
Incredibly we’ve managed to get even weaker in all areas that needed addressing.
The only hope I see is the return to full fitness of Archibald and Graham, and pulling a few quality signings out of the hat this week.
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Post by dennisrofe on Aug 26, 2024 9:44:45 GMT
Apart from our keeper’s howlers against Bolton and Birmingham, my biggest frustration and area of worry is how poor we seem to be at moving the ball forward and in making progress up the park. I was struck from the off yesterday at how different Birmingham’s game was from ours. When Birmingham got possession they moved the ball forward every time and seldom passed back. On the other hand, the O’s default position is to pass back. Constantly! A classic example yesterday was when Obiero did very well to win the ball by Birmingham’s corner flag, yet instead of the ball being sent in towards goal, it was back with Hemming within 30 seconds, simply from a sequence of pass backs. Aaaaaargh!!!! We constantly go nowhere fast, usually allowing possession eventually to go to the opposition. Why do we have this perpetual, hesitant and fearful style. I personally find it soul destroying to watch. I can’t see us winning any game, (apart maybe occasionally by the odd goal if we get lucky). We looked much better yesterday after Agyei came on when we finally started playing more positively and I was pleased to see some fight and spirit finally. However, I don’t buy into some of the comments elsewhere suggesting we have not done badly against 3 of the division’s top teams. We lost every one of these games, none of which we looked close to winning, and unless we start playing more positive and dominant football, especially at home, I fear we will be back in league 2 next season. ''A classic example yesterday was when Obiero did very well to win the ball by Birmingham’s corner flag, yet instead of the ball being sent in towards goal, it was back with Hemming within 30 seconds, simply from a sequence of pass backs. Aaaaaargh!!!!''
Excellently written comment by @ viastratford and the above one reminds me so much of the tactics used by Southgate's England team, when so often in offensive positions and the constant sideways and backward passing, sometimes ending up with the keeper.
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Post by redshank on Aug 26, 2024 9:53:19 GMT
Seems we are damning RW with faint praise.Maybe the question is are we ready fora new style of management and play.If we answer no then we will play the way RW wants us to play.
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Post by dohnut on Aug 26, 2024 10:12:42 GMT
Seems we are damning RW with faint praise.Maybe the question is are we ready fora new style of management and play.If we answer no then we will play the way RW wants us to play. The problem is redshank that RW has on more than one occasion said we need to move the ball forward quicker, not to be a backwards playing side. So the team don’t always play the way RW wants. We are all-too-often looking to go backwards. Sometimes the best option but not as plan A. It’s infuriating. Playing with fear someone said! Can understand that. Our style of play and that of many other teams is very different. And I don’t think it’s what RW wants. |
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Post by redintheface on Aug 26, 2024 10:13:10 GMT
Seems we are damning RW with faint praise.Maybe the question is are we ready fora new style of management and play.If we answer no then we will play the way RW wants us to play. With all due respect redshank you are missing the point I think. Wellens has said clearly on numerous occasions on he wants the players to be “brave” and pass the ball more aggressively- yet we frequently play slowly sideways or backwards much to his evident frustration . So we are clearly not playing as RW wants us to play with any consistency. |
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Post by Fisch on Aug 26, 2024 10:36:35 GMT
I believe Dan A was benched to manage his minutes/fitness although perhaps a change of attacking ideas may have had an influence. I agree somewhat with the "fearful" comment, Brum learned early on that O'Neill wasn't going to hurt them despite most of us probably believing he could if only he'd go for it. Kind of begs the question Fisch; what is it that is making the players “ fearful”?🤔 Dunno. Youth perhaps, reputation of the opponents, very frustrating for RW. |
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Post by redshank on Aug 26, 2024 10:40:36 GMT
Seems we are damning RW with faint praise.Maybe the question is are we ready fora new style of management and play.If we answer no then we will play the way RW wants us to play. The problem is redshank that RW has on more than one occasion said we need to move the ball forward quicker, not to be a backwards playing side. So the team don’t always play the way RW wants. We are all-too-often looking to go backwards. Sometimes the best option but not as plan A. It’s infuriating. Playing with fear someone said! Can understand that. Our style of play and that of many other teams is very different. And I don’t think it’s what RW wants. Not having that,the manager is in charge not the players. |
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Post by buffalobill on Aug 26, 2024 11:52:32 GMT
I agree that we too often end up passing sideways or backwards and that the manager has said he wants the players to be braver and get the ball forwards quicker.
So is it fear that if they try to do so and fail, that the manager will boll0ck them, is it lack of confidence in their own ability to do so?
Remember these are young players who are still developing and trying to earn a living in a highly competitive environment.
Wouldn’t surprise me if at times they take the easier option and not the riskier pass which might cut the opposition open.
Think Birmingham should be given some praise for their press and how they transition from defence to attack. I don’t think we’ll see many better sides than them at doing that and we went toe to toe with them.
I think we’ll find our feet and safely pull away from relegation, providing of course the goalkeeper sorts himself out.
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Post by redshank on Aug 26, 2024 12:11:12 GMT
The turnover of players at our club is a problem most lower league clubs due to financial restraints have.Getting the players to play in the system wanted takes time through the season,some players will come good others won't,then the next season we have to start almost from scratch with some big spenders in the league.We are always a club that lives in the fear of relegation but in general punch above our weight,We ain't got no billionaires at the club.What we have is a board and club representative's that do their best to try and get us into a better position.Since being in the National League we have made spectacular advances with no Orient debt.We cannot be
freespenders as much as we would all like to be.
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Post by Thor on Aug 26, 2024 12:16:28 GMT
It's not fear in any way shape or form. The players are not scared to make a mistake, they just at times take the easier option, the safe option. We retain the ball and we look to play again.
Better players will take the forward pass on, the more difficult option as they believe in their ability to make it happen.
I've said before our play is not the issue at the moment, it's the mistakes which are costing us. We will learn, we will improve, but it won't be today, it will be tomorrow.
Its gonna turn out well in the end. These kids are decent for league 1, some will adapt quicker than others and the team play will improve further over time.
We just need to believe. Its kind of that simple.
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