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Post by watfordo on May 28, 2024 7:28:05 GMT
We had the best deal in the EU. We had the best of all worlds.
The EU, as an organisation, I didnt like at all, but I deeply disliked Johnson and if he was selling it you knew it would be full of s***. That turned out to be the case. As an importer, I can tell that trading to and from the EU is much more complicated than it ever was. I can tell you that my children no longer have the right to stay, study and travel indefinitely on the EU. I can tell you that exporting goods to the EU is so problematic, for a small business like mine that I doubt I’ll bother. I can tell you that building sites are crying out for skilled labour - the sort that no longer come from overseas while our own population dont want to do these jobs at all.
The argument that there is some connection between the EU and the ECHR is a deliberate lie. They arent connected and anyone that seeks to reduce my human rights, protected by this court, by taking us out of it,can do one.
Brexit is total s***. Anyone that says otherwise needs to give me some current tangible arguments as to why this is such a good thing and I dont mean looking into a future and pointing out things you think might improve. I mean things that have actually improved.
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Post by dohnut on May 28, 2024 8:30:07 GMT
So where is this Brexi disaster that alfresco speaks of ? Remainers are WANTING it to be a disaster but it ''aint'' happening which annoys them even more so !
Talk of rejoining the EU is fanciful nonsense. Many countries in the EU are starting to think of leaving it unless it reforms drastically. My friend in Germany tells me that many of her friends are against any more immigrants coming in from North Africa and much the same complaints as we hear here in UK, rising prices of food, energy prices etc. Remainers and people in general fail to take into consideration ( or dont want to !! ) the worldwide crippling economic effects of the Ukraine war and the 2 years of the Covid pandemic. If we did try to rejoin the EU again, the terms would not be as good as last time. As I understand it, Mrs Thatcher negotiated a yearly rebate on the amount we paid into the EU kitty and also we would have to give up our own currency and adopt the Euro, not a good idea at all !
Because these are not facts just BREXITEER propaganda That’s the issue. Remainers won’t believe goog new because it doesn’t fit the agenda. Same goes the other way of course. PS. They are facts. |
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Post by arrgee on May 28, 2024 11:30:22 GMT
We had the best deal in the EU. We had the best of all worlds. The EU, as an organisation, I didnt like at all, but I deeply disliked Johnson and if he was selling it you knew it would be full of s***. That turned out to be the case. As an importer, I can tell that trading to and from the EU is much more complicated than it ever was. I can tell you that my children no longer have the right to stay, study and travel indefinitely on the EU. I can tell you that exporting goods to the EU is so problematic, for a small business like mine that I doubt I’ll bother. I can tell you that building sites are crying out for skilled labour - the sort that no longer come from overseas while our own population dont want to do these jobs at all. The argument that there is some connection between the EU and the ECHR is a deliberate lie. They arent connected and anyone that seeks to reduce my human rights, protected by this court, by taking us out of it,can do one. Brexit is total s***. Anyone that says otherwise needs to give me some current tangible arguments as to why this is such a good thing and I dont mean looking into a future and pointing out things you think might improve. I mean things that have actually improved. I agree that Brexit is total s*** because what happened isn’t what anyone voted for. I did vote to leave based on what was supposed to happen, but simply has not. The May deal was rightly rejected and the BoJo deal which was just as bad should have been. The saving of £350m/week never materialised. Immigration is higher than ever. The borders are porous. Trade agreements are not in place and the civil service has stymied changes to legislation. Meanwhile, the right to work in Europe has disappeared, trade within the EU has become more difficult and many EU wide agreements (that still include the Swiss) no longer apply particularly in telecommunications and media. The referendum was advisory and stated "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?" Cameron was foolish to state at the outset there would not be another referendum if British voters chose to leave the EU. His hubris in expecting the UK voting to stay created a situation where the UK had to leave. There should always have been provision for the electorate to ratify the exit terms. Had the exit terms been presented to the population in 2016, there is no way that it would have been a majority voting leave. Anyway, my Irish passport application was posted last week. And my children fortunately have the option to get one too should they decide to work in Europe. www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/why_vote_leave.htmlwww.politico.eu/article/15-things-uk-vote-leave-promised-on-brexit-and-what-it-got/ |
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Post by arrgee on May 28, 2024 11:43:36 GMT
And his third huge error? After ditching Tory spending constraints, Brown went on a spree after all, pumping up the economy in preparation for the day when he replaced Tony Blair as Prime Minister. He assured us that he had put an end to boom and bust, a laughable claim, because nobody ever will. I disagree. Brown did end boom and bust, because there hasn’t been a boom since 2008. |
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Post by arrgee on May 28, 2024 11:49:10 GMT
I've seen two opinion polls lately, saying around 70% of the electorate would vote to rejoin the EU if there were a referendum, therefore I'm very surprised no parties at all have included this as something they would implement. Once bitten, twice shy. I would only vote to rejoin the EU if it was made clear what that would entail. More fool me for voting to leave on the basis of the campaign which was a pack of false promises. Would UK have to join Euro? Would borders be open? How much would UK have to contribute? Would UK have veto? Would there be an EU army? Would EU parliament override UK parliament? etc. With regards to rejoining, I am in the do nothing camp right now. |
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Post by redshank on May 28, 2024 11:57:15 GMT
We got tired of coughing up billions,obeying all the rules whist other countries discarded them at will and still wanted more out of us.Cameron asked for reform but was told to f off.So we did by winning a majority leave vote.
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Post by redshank on May 28, 2024 12:08:37 GMT
And his third huge error? After ditching Tory spending constraints, Brown went on a spree after all, pumping up the economy in preparation for the day when he replaced Tony Blair as Prime Minister. He assured us that he had put an end to boom and bust, a laughable claim, because nobody ever will. I disagree. Brown did end boom and bust, because there hasn’t been a boom since 2008. There was a boom in printing money rendering savings less by inflation and 0% or just a tad higher interest rates.The printed money went straight to the major banks who did not want your savings,The market with 0% interest rates had nowhere to go and the National debt increased and services and civility from companies vanished. Their money came form the banks who chucked it around like confetti. The best thing Brown did was keeping us out of the Euro. |
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Post by dohnut on May 28, 2024 12:53:44 GMT
We had the best deal in the EU. We had the best of all worlds. The EU, as an organisation, I didnt like at all, but I deeply disliked Johnson and if he was selling it you knew it would be full of s***. That turned out to be the case. As an importer, I can tell that trading to and from the EU is much more complicated than it ever was. I can tell you that my children no longer have the right to stay, study and travel indefinitely on the EU. I can tell you that exporting goods to the EU is so problematic, for a small business like mine that I doubt I’ll bother. I can tell you that building sites are crying out for skilled labour - the sort that no longer come from overseas while our own population dont want to do these jobs at all. The argument that there is some connection between the EU and the ECHR is a deliberate lie. They arent connected and anyone that seeks to reduce my human rights, protected by this court, by taking us out of it,can do one. Brexit is total s***. Anyone that says otherwise needs to give me some current tangible arguments as to why this is such a good thing and I dont mean looking into a future and pointing out things you think might improve. I mean things that have actually improved. I agree that Brexit is total s*** because what happened isn’t what anyone voted for. I did vote to leave based on what was supposed to happen, but simply has not. The May deal was rightly rejected and the BoJo deal which was just as bad should have been. The saving of £350m/week never materialised. Immigration is higher than ever. The borders are porous. Trade agreements are not in place and the civil service has stymied changes to legislation. Meanwhile, the right to work in Europe has disappeared, trade within the EU has become more difficult and many EU wide agreements (that still include the Swiss) no longer apply particularly in telecommunications and media. The referendum was advisory and stated "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?" Cameron was foolish to state at the outset there would not be another referendum if British voters chose to leave the EU. His hubris in expecting the UK voting to stay created a situation where the UK had to leave. There should always have been provision for the electorate to ratify the exit terms. Had the exit terms been presented to the population in 2016, there is no way that it would have been a majority voting leave. Anyway, my Irish passport application was posted last week. And my children fortunately have the option to get one too should they decide to work in Europe. www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/why_vote_leave.htmlwww.politico.eu/article/15-things-uk-vote-leave-promised-on-brexit-and-what-it-got/The who said what stuff is history. The decision was taken based on the stories put out by both sides, people believed what they wanted. Gideon house price crises as part of project fear etc, the Boris money saving bus. Propaganda. But it was in reality impossible to assess the real pros and cons. That debate rages on to this day and will continue, pointless as it is. The decision was taken and we are out. its a shame really. As a trade community the EU, or common market that people subscribed to was and remains in my opinion a very sensible union. But when it moved away and became a body that wanted to interfere too much in countries domestic politics and policies it went too far. |
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Post by buffalobill on May 28, 2024 13:30:44 GMT
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Post by Thor on May 28, 2024 13:38:47 GMT
We had the best deal in the EU. We had the best of all worlds. The EU, as an organisation, I didnt like at all, but I deeply disliked Johnson and if he was selling it you knew it would be full of s***. That turned out to be the case. As an importer, I can tell that trading to and from the EU is much more complicated than it ever was. I can tell you that my children no longer have the right to stay, study and travel indefinitely on the EU. I can tell you that exporting goods to the EU is so problematic, for a small business like mine that I doubt I’ll bother. I can tell you that building sites are crying out for skilled labour - the sort that no longer come from overseas while our own population dont want to do these jobs at all. The argument that there is some connection between the EU and the ECHR is a deliberate lie. They arent connected and anyone that seeks to reduce my human rights, protected by this court, by taking us out of it,can do one. Brexit is total s***. Anyone that says otherwise needs to give me some current tangible arguments as to why this is such a good thing and I dont mean looking into a future and pointing out things you think might improve. I mean things that have actually improved. I agree that Brexit is total s*** because what happened isn’t what anyone voted for. I did vote to leave based on what was supposed to happen, but simply has not. The May deal was rightly rejected and the BoJo deal which was just as bad should have been. The saving of £350m/week never materialised. Immigration is higher than ever. The borders are porous. Trade agreements are not in place and the civil service has stymied changes to legislation. Meanwhile, the right to work in Europe has disappeared, trade within the EU has become more difficult and many EU wide agreements (that still include the Swiss) no longer apply particularly in telecommunications and media. The referendum was advisory and stated "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?" Cameron was foolish to state at the outset there would not be another referendum if British voters chose to leave the EU. His hubris in expecting the UK voting to stay created a situation where the UK had to leave. There should always have been provision for the electorate to ratify the exit terms. Had the exit terms been presented to the population in 2016, there is no way that it would have been a majority voting leave. Anyway, my Irish passport application was posted last week. And my children fortunately have the option to get one too should they decide to work in Europe. www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/why_vote_leave.htmlwww.politico.eu/article/15-things-uk-vote-leave-promised-on-brexit-and-what-it-got/the government has actually invested far more than the 350m a week promised. Its far exceed that number so the NHS did see that money. The fact that is run like a s*** show is another matter, but the money did get there. Look it up. |
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Post by buffalobill on May 28, 2024 14:56:36 GMT
This government has had 14 years to address all of the issues we face, can’t see much progress on anything.
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Post by buffalobill on May 28, 2024 14:58:24 GMT
Mungo, probably best to shut this thread down, doubt anything that is said will change people’s views.
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Post by redshank on May 28, 2024 15:07:40 GMT
This government has had 14 years to address all of the issues we face, can’t see much progress on anything. I cannot think of any government that has passed bills deleting a previous governments policy.Blairs first term of office went the same way as John Majors fiscal policies. |
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Post by redshank on May 28, 2024 15:22:05 GMT
My last political comment on this thread,we now know others politics,and as I consider all on this forum as friends,I would like to keep it that way.
Nothing we can say arguing among ourselves will change anything.I bid this thread adieu Mon Amis.
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Post by Thor on May 28, 2024 15:29:32 GMT
Mungo, probably best to shut this thread down, doubt anything that is said will change people’s views. its good to debate things, some things boarders will be right about and some they will be wrong about. That's how you debate and educate people. I do agree with you that they have had 14 years and have squandered a very strong position to make things better and have failed in that respect. Trouble is our politics is in a bad state as I don't know what old jellyfish stands for. What I am seeing is him flip flopping on everything. He will say whatever it is to win him a vote even saying the complete opposite of what he has said before. Look at what he stood for Labour leader on and you will see he doesn't believe any of it anymore as he doesn't have those of points he's going to move forwards with. He has no backbone hence why I refer to him as jellyfish. Now I do know that he is a hypocrite, as he had a paid for education, he says my dad was a toolmaker, he forgot to say he owned the whole factory! Yet now I'm gonna be paying another £4-500 per month to carry on my sons education. It was OK for him, but not for me. How is that fair? Still Corbyn did the same, Abbott, Harman and on and on I could go. Still I do believe the NHS will be in goods hands under him and his party and for that I would be grateful. |
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Post by Fisch on May 28, 2024 15:32:31 GMT
This thread could morph into something very interesting:
Throughout the world, in all sorts of ways, humans rarely change our views about politics, tribalism, religion etc., and virtually never at the behest of others who try convince us of the error of our ways. Frankly, history indicates we prefer to kill each other rather than change.
A challenge... How many of us have significantly changed our religious allegiance at some point?
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Post by arrgee on May 28, 2024 15:39:41 GMT
the government has actually invested far more than the 350m a week promised. It’s far exceed that number so the NHS did see that money. The fact that is run like a s*** show is another matter, but the money did get there. Look it up. The problem with is that money did get spent and more (squandered?) in the immediate aftermath of Brexit on COVID. However £350m/week wasn’t reallocated as such, instead the national debt rose from around 80% of GDP to about 100% of GDP. So the money spent on the NHS has come from borrowing rather than leaving the EU. And with the budget deficit currently at about £50bn (approx. 2% of GDP), and the £350m/week saving is about £18bn. The government spends over £100bn servicing the national debt (approx 4% of GDP), which is similar to what is spent on Education… … and the whole thing is run like a s*** show  |
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Post by arrgee on May 28, 2024 15:51:37 GMT
This government has had 14 years to address all of the issues we face, can’t see much progress on anything. To be somewhat fair, two of those governments were coalitions and some of the policies in the manifesto were watered down as a consequence. What has done for this government is having got Brexit done, and muddled their way through the pandemic, they changed leader twice, had a bonkers budget with the first one and now a PM who likes to distract from the main issues like taxation rising to post war highs with smoking bans and national service. This government doesn’t want to face the big issues, and I’m not sure the next government will either. There will be a day of reckoning for the UK as the cost of the elderly rises year on year with younger people expected to support it. In 1992, The Sun had the headline of the last person to leave when Kinnock was elected to turn the lights out, however that may be true whoever gets in this time, and the lights may well be going out before you leave. |
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Post by kbola on May 28, 2024 15:58:13 GMT
We had the best deal in the EU. We had the best of all worlds. The EU, as an organisation, I didnt like at all, but I deeply disliked Johnson and if he was selling it you knew it would be full of s***. That turned out to be the case. As an importer, I can tell that trading to and from the EU is much more complicated than it ever was. I can tell you that my children no longer have the right to stay, study and travel indefinitely on the EU. I can tell you that exporting goods to the EU is so problematic, for a small business like mine that I doubt I’ll bother. I can tell you that building sites are crying out for skilled labour - the sort that no longer come from overseas while our own population dont want to do these jobs at all. The argument that there is some connection between the EU and the ECHR is a deliberate lie. They arent connected and anyone that seeks to reduce my human rights, protected by this court, by taking us out of it,can do one. Brexit is total s***. Anyone that says otherwise needs to give me some current tangible arguments as to why this is such a good thing and I dont mean looking into a future and pointing out things you think might improve. I mean things that have actually improved. Great points watfordo. I'm sure the BREXITEERS will be back with some very tangible BREXIT benefits such as opening the curtains to see the unicorns sweeping majestically across the sunlit uplands |
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Post by kbola on May 28, 2024 15:59:40 GMT
The facts speak for themselves but the BREXITEERS won't accept the TRUTH as it doesn't fit their AGENDA. FACT |
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