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Post by Thor on May 28, 2024 17:02:20 GMT
This thread could morph into something very interesting: Throughout the world, in all sorts of ways, humans rarely change our views about politics, tribalism, religion etc., and virtually never at the behest of others who try convince us of the error of our ways. Frankly, history indicates we prefer to kill each other rather than change. A challenge... How many of us have significantly changed our religious allegiance at some point? I didn't used to believe, but now I do. So I've changed. |
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Post by Fisch on May 28, 2024 17:33:32 GMT
This thread could morph into something very interesting: Throughout the world, in all sorts of ways, humans rarely change our views about politics, tribalism, religion etc., and virtually never at the behest of others who try convince us of the error of our ways. Frankly, history indicates we prefer to kill each other rather than change. A challenge... How many of us have significantly changed our religious allegiance at some point? I didn't used to believe, but now I do. So I've changed. who convinced you, and how? |
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Post by Nick312 on May 28, 2024 17:54:29 GMT
I didn't used to believe, but now I do. So I've changed. who convinced you, and how? Shouldn't this be its own thread; a very interesting one I agree. I've always believed in God, still do and probably always will. My instinct is to stick with the CofE as (no pun intended) the Devil I know. |
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Post by kbola on May 28, 2024 18:25:34 GMT
Orient is my religion and Ritchie is my God 🙏
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Post by dohnut on May 28, 2024 18:41:04 GMT
As a boy I was a devout Catholic. Altar server, Legion of Mary, door knocking and praying with Lapsed Catholics, Did the Latin Mass and unlike most actually understood what it meant in English. Bible Study, thoughts of becoming a priest.
Now I’m a non- believer.
But. The way I figure it, it doesn’t matter a jot whether you believe or not. If there is no God then it don’t make a difference, if their is a God I will be judged on how I led my life, actions. Despite not being a believer I lead a Christian way of life in what I do. That is enough.
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Post by arrgee on May 28, 2024 18:57:49 GMT
As a boy I was a devout Catholic. Altar server, Legion of Mary, door knocking and praying with Lapsed Catholics, Did the Latin Mass and unlike most actually understood what it meant in English. Bible Study, thoughts of becoming a priest. Now I’m a non- believer. But. The way I figure it, it doesn’t matter a jot whether you believe or not. If there is no God then it don’t make a difference, if their is a God I will be judged on how I led my life, actions. Despite not being a believer I lead a Christian way of life in what I do. That is enough. What if God doesn’t like Christians? Anyway, praying on the hour every hour doesn’t sound like much fun… genius.com/Ian-gillan-no-laughing-in-heaven-lyrics |
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Post by arrgee on May 28, 2024 19:00:15 GMT
Orient is my religion and Ritchie is my God 🙏 I see Nigel Travis as God. Richie is the messiah (or maybe just a very naughty boy!)  |
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Post by mujtahido on May 28, 2024 19:24:39 GMT
I don't believe in fairy stories there's no god and when you die that's it end of
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Post by dohnut on May 28, 2024 20:57:01 GMT
As a boy I was a devout Catholic. Altar server, Legion of Mary, door knocking and praying with Lapsed Catholics, Did the Latin Mass and unlike most actually understood what it meant in English. Bible Study, thoughts of becoming a priest. Now I’m a non- believer. But. The way I figure it, it doesn’t matter a jot whether you believe or not. If there is no God then it don’t make a difference, if their is a God I will be judged on how I led my life, actions. Despite not being a believer I lead a Christian way of life in what I do. That is enough. What if God doesn’t like Christians? Anyway, praying on the hour every hour doesn’t sound like much fun… genius.com/Ian-gillan-no-laughing-in-heaven-lyricsChristian as in a way of life rather than being a Christian. Strange, don’t believe in a Christ but some things you learn growing up stay with you. Makes no real sense and I am a person of logic. Ingrained in growing up. Not Christian as such but Odd habits I guess, like when walking down a road with a woman I must walk road-side. I open doors for woman and feel uncomfortable sitting in a train if a woman is standing. And on odd occasions when in a church I just cannot go across the isle without facing and nodding to the altar. I’m also very respectful to things important to others in their religions. And I enjoy Christmas, the biggest thing celebrated by non-Christians |
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Post by Thor on May 28, 2024 22:20:59 GMT
I didn't used to believe, but now I do. So I've changed. who convinced you, and how? My wife and I wanted our kids to go to a church school, which was also the best primary school in the borough. We changed parishes to do it via permission from the church. One stipulation was you had to go to church every week for two years. We did that, my wife more than me due to football coaching. Anyway, growing up I only went to church for births deaths and marriage and here was I a regular church goer. It’s a C OF E church. I started to listen, to learn and to understand something I had very little understanding or interest in. I started to enjoy it, I started to believe in God, that’s not saying I didn’t before just never really thought too deeply. What I did feel was a peace come over me whilst there, a calmness. Further I noticed everyone was calm, relaxed, not stressed, no worries. Father Anthony was a good man, he made you feel at ease, he said doing your coaching the children is ok with god as he knows what your doing which is good for others and so he doesn’t mind you not being there every Sunday, just come when you are able to. No pressure and a reassurance I’m doing a good thing. I have enjoyed it, my kids are nearing the end of school life, my daughter getting ready to go live in another country to study, my son about halfway through gcse, so till today I find it good and enjoyable and go when I can, probably not as much as I should or could do. |
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Post by Fisch on May 28, 2024 22:34:58 GMT
Some interesting human stories here but, as yet, nobody is saying they made a change as a result of a debate, much less due to the strength of argument made by a person of a different view.
For clarity, I am a militant atheist and actively seek out and debate with anything I perceive as pro religion but, and my point here, is that I didn't take this position as a result of reading/hearing atheist propaganda. Nobody convinced me of anything, it was a slow and incremental change.
The closest to that would be the works of Richard Dawkins I guess - so perhaps he did persuade me? I'm not sure.
Anyone else who can perhaps point the finger to the bringer of convincing evidence for any similar conversion?
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Post by dohnut on May 28, 2024 23:22:32 GMT
My change was never a result of debate but a growing awareness of the hypocrisy that is religion. Growing up in a religious environment I became aware of so many instances and some I struggle with today. They literally didn’t practice what they preached. The Catholic religion has much to be ashamed of.
I do wonder sometimes if debate did influence me. As a young man and member of The Legion of Mary I spent one evening a week visiting people who were lapsed Catholics, my role was to discuss their non - attendance at mass and to pray with them in the hope they would return. Maybe their arguments as to why they no longer followed their religion were stronger than mine as to why they should. One of the more sad aspects of my role was visiting old Catholics in hospital. For many our 10 minutes was all the visits they got. But at least there was value to what the church did.
I always remember our parish Priest visiting our house, we were active members and these visits a reward of sorts. The priests were treated like royalty. Always cake and biscuits. A big deal in the DOhnut household. But they definitely did not deserve such adoration, I worked behind the scenes regularly at our local church and saw a different side to some. But it wasn’t all bad. Father Martaugn took us rock climbing and canoeing and had a wicked sense of humour.
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Post by watfordo on May 29, 2024 4:23:27 GMT
I see most religions as forces for good. Without religion, man has just replaced god with the religion of societal ideas and they didnt go well. Even Dawkins called himself a cultural Christian.
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Post by dohnut on May 29, 2024 8:03:55 GMT
I see most religions as forces for good. Without religion, man has just replaced god with the religion of societal ideas and they didnt go well. Even Dawkins called himself a cultural Christian. Totally agree, in general religion aims to be a force for good but history shows too many wars and atrocities in the name of whatever God is supported. And I doubt I need to recount the history of abuse in my own Catholic religion in the not too distant past. Force for good depends on what you consider good. Sometimes it’s just force. Opinions as to what is good, vary. I see myself as holding Christian values, part of my DNA due to upbringing, but have no problem questioning the existence of a God. I personally have separated the two. A Christian society, in fact any society, can live in a good way by adopting religious values but without the need to believe in the Holy Trinity, the virgin birth or the existence of some all powerful being. |
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Post by Fisch on May 29, 2024 8:57:10 GMT
I think I'll give up with this. It seems to be slipping into "this is good - that is bad" argument. I'd hoped we could focus on the question of if/how you changed your mind and whether debate/argument actually produced a result in your case.
Arguments about religion do not belong here.
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Post by watfordo on May 29, 2024 9:08:05 GMT
I think I'll give up with this. It seems to be slipping into "this is good - that is bad" argument. I'd hoped we could focus on the question of if/how you changed your mind and whether debate/argument actually produced a result in your case. Arguments about religion do not belong here. FWIW I havent really changed my mind on this but somethings are brought into a sharper focus with age. I look around and see the beauty and almost perfect balance of nature and wonder how this could just be by accident than by design. Ive heard all the arguments but none have convinced me. I dont need to believe in grey bearded men sitting on fluffy clouds but if that works for you then I dont have an issue with it and wouldnt seek to persuade you otherwise. Whatever makes you happy. |
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Post by Thor on May 29, 2024 10:29:04 GMT
Agreed Watfordo we didn't evolve we were.defo created. Everything is too perfect for evolution, everything on this planet has a purpose and all need each other to survive.
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Post by Fisch on May 29, 2024 10:32:50 GMT
🤬
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Post by mujtahido on May 29, 2024 11:05:03 GMT
Agreed Watfordo we didn't evolve we were.defo created. Everything is too perfect for evolution, everything on this planet has a purpose and all need each other to survive. Thousands of years ago different people and cultures used to worship different gods and figures and we now laugh at them.The Romans and the ancient Greeks for example and in a thousand years people will be laughing to think that people once worshipped a god.But hey ho each to their own i suppose |
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Post by watfordo on May 29, 2024 11:20:05 GMT
Agreed Watfordo we didn't evolve we were.defo created. Everything is too perfect for evolution, everything on this planet has a purpose and all need each other to survive. Thousands of years ago different people and cultures used to worship different gods and figures and we now laugh at them.The Romans and the ancient Greeks for example and in a thousand years people will be laughing to think that people once worshipped a god.But hey ho each to their own i suppose Jews are into the year 5784. Not sure your assertion that people in a thousand years will laugh will hold up. |
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