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Post by disoriented on Jan 30, 2021 21:37:24 GMT
Look, it is clear why Ross is there - blind Freddie knows that. The problem doesn’t lie with him. He is an under-qualified manager in all respects and he has been thrown into the deep end to satiate the fragilities of someone higher up.
Until that person goes, the cycle will be repeated.
Nigel and Kent will dispense with Ross’ services at the end of the season - that is no doubt. However, will they have the minerals to say bye bye to Martin?
THAT is what needs to happen.
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Post by MungO on Jan 31, 2021 9:26:03 GMT
Because results, performances, and general feels around the club are declining I do wonder if Martin has had a word with Sam to get an inside line on how the players feel about Ross? The same way he did with Fletcher.
Wonder if Sam has told him that he's f***ed it up again a few months ago like he told him with Fletcher?
Be nice to have a bit of transparency about this wouldn't it.
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Post by carpslayer on Jan 31, 2021 9:42:06 GMT
its probably about wages good managers cost to much
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Post by MungO on Jan 31, 2021 9:55:13 GMT
That doesn't add up though.
Lets just say Coulson and Dayton were to leave either now or at the end of the season. I'd prefer that money be used to fund a better quality and experienced manager.
Or let's go a bit lighter on the amount of coaches and use that saving.
And with a playing wage cap now in place the salaries will be dropping.
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Post by sidmouth on Jan 31, 2021 9:55:15 GMT
I think if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
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Post by alfresco on Jan 31, 2021 10:26:33 GMT
I completely agree with Mungos rantings.
Johnsons goals have mananged to take Embletons inefficiencies from the forefront. Without Dannys goals we would be 2nd from bottom .
Ross is clueless..no point being kind...he is clueless.
Ive never seen so many players, played out of position as this season.
Much of this is Martin Lings fault too......he brings in the players, and he brings in players we dont need, in positions we dont need, and someone else, already at the club, then gets moved to a different position.
Good example was yeasterdaY...Kemp came in, so Wilkinson got moved to the left, which is not a good position for him
Things are too cosy at Orient......its like a social club, for old boys
The worrying thing is, the owners love Martin & Martin loves Ross.....he's almost like a son to him, and because of that, neither of them will be going anywhere.....both have jobs for life at Orient.
I have never been as unhappy with things at Orient as i am now ( except of course when the mad Italian was in charge), and I can see this club slipping back into the National league in a season or two
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Post by redintheface on Jan 31, 2021 11:54:22 GMT
Not sure I would agree with your contention that Ross is “ clueless” tbh. He is simply not the right man to be at the helm. There’s no shame in that, his qualities are better suited to the technical aspects of coaching. He doesn’t have the charisma or force of personality to impose himself on a group of players and get them all pulling in the same direction.
I also wouldn’t pile all of the blame on Ling. The appointment of Davis - on paper- was a sound one. The club was emerging from a state of chaos, time was short and Davis had a long career in lower league football as both a player ( 450 odd games) and manager ( 14 seasons at Nantwich & Crewe) before joining us. OK, it didn’t work but the thinking was right.
After Edinburgh ( the obvious success) , things again not surprisingly were quite chaotic.
The appointment of Ross on an interim basis was understandable but should have been accompanied by some proactivity in respect of searching for a permanent replacement.
Instead we had to wait for Embleton himself to walk away from the job before the infamous Board sanctioned “ process” got underway and effectively excluded anyone who had multiple previous jobs or might have wanted to bring in their own coaching staff. As a result we emerged with Carl Fletcher as a “ clear winner” six long weeks later. 29 days after that he was gone amidst a flurry of accusations about disgruntled staff and players. To reappoint Embleton on a permanent basis subsequently was a huge collective failure of both the Board and DoF and one which continues to hold the club back imho.
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Post by dohnut on Jan 31, 2021 12:30:12 GMT
We know Travis reads this forum. He also said, twice recently the forums contain a lot of nonsense,. He is fully entitled to his opinion and posts like the above list may well fall into his category of nonsense.
He is a great bloke, doing well for the club and putting his money where his mouth is. Deserves our respect.
But what his money can never buy is the experience of so many fans, watching games through some really dark times, week in, week out, Reading about it from the comfort of his Boston home is a million miles from feeling the crap first hand. Watching our young players working their nuts off giving blood for the cause. Cast aside later on.
Maybe, just maybe, with a little more experience on the front line of supporting our club, he may understand why many of us feel the way we do. Sometimes it’s the foot soldiers who really understand and not those in the board room.
I would really like to know how many games he has actually seen, live, in recent years. My guess, not many. Maybe he could correct my opinion.
money can never buy experience nor the feelings associated with watching, supporting and suffering.
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Post by MungO on Jan 31, 2021 12:48:23 GMT
I agree with the fact that Ross isn't 'useless'. I mentioned earlier in the thread that as a coach he is respected by all and I don't think any of us would have had an issue of him being a coach at Orient for a very long time.
But he just isn't a manager.
I hope Nigel and Kent read the forums and Twitter and wherever else he gets fans feedback because usually when you get an outpouring like yesterday, today, and generally over the last year, the same comments, reiterating the same laboured points, collectively we aren't usually wrong.
Some people take just one defeat, some a string of defeats, some an entire season before they pop with this emotion. But we have been saying that it was the wrong appointment from day one. All the interim guff and Fletcher and the process and all that crap. Collectively the fans are being proven right. Again.
Whether it was Abe Lincoln, PT Barnum, Confucius, or Lydgate who the saying is attributed to:
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Post by MungO on Jan 31, 2021 12:49:58 GMT
And no I'm not saying Ross is a fool. Not at all. Go back and read it if that is what you think.
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Post by redshank on Jan 31, 2021 13:47:29 GMT
By the reckoning of this forum,every manager of the teams below us should be sacked or pushed aside.We have good runs and bad runs,prior to the last two losses we had a three match winning run.
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Post by jimbo1983 on Jan 31, 2021 13:59:56 GMT
Some people here seem to have very short memories.
Ling has done a decent job. When he come in we hardly had a team... He brought players in. He brought Justin Edinburgh in. We stabilised and then promoted. We stayed up and are currently midtable in league two with a decent squad as people have said the strongest team in league two or one of. He has had to deal with the death of our manager and look sensitively for another. Now we have covid. Give the guy a break. I don't see other dof having to deal with that and still progress on the field.
As for Ross I don't think he is the right man for the job. I have always said that but put some names out there who would you want.... I asked before and just got the usual cast the net and see who applies but it doesn't really work like that in football. Name names... Who would people want realistically.
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Post by redintheface on Jan 31, 2021 14:03:06 GMT
By the reckoning of this forum,every manager of the teams below us should be sacked or pushed aside.We have good runs and bad runs,prior to the last two losses we had a three match winning run. Tbf redshank I don’t think that’s what the forum is saying at all. Most of those posting do however have varying degrees of doubt about RE’s capacity to take us forward, the way that a team with some decent players and a top 7 budget is performing and concerns that there is a fixation behind the scenes on process and “culture” that potentially hinders progression. As I’ve said before Ross has actually done somewhat better than I thought he would ( albeit not as well as I’d hoped!). I just think with the right person in charge we could have cemented a top three finish by now instead of flirting with the playoffs. |
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Post by redintheface on Jan 31, 2021 14:04:04 GMT
Some people here seem to have very short memories. Ling has done a decent job. When he come in we hardly had a team... He brought players in. He brought Justin Edinburgh in. We stabilised and then promoted. We stayed up and are currently midtable in league two with a decent squad as people have said the strongest team in league two or one of. He has had to deal with the death of our manager and look sensitively for another. Now we have covid. Give the guy a break. I don't see other dof having to deal with that and still progress on the field. As for Ross I don't think he is the right man for the job. I have always said that but put some names out there who would you want.... I asked before and just got the usual cast the net and see who applies but it doesn't really work like that in football. Name names... Who would people want realistically. The “ cast the net and see who applies” option was the one the Board adopted as part of “ the process” and it landed us Carl Fletcher. I agree that a more targeted approach would be likely to yield better results but if the ethos of the club is that individuals with multiple previous jobs are excluded or that successful candidates do not have the option to bring in their own coaching staff it’s difficult to come up with “ realistic “ alternatives. I will post a poll with half a dozen options that I would consider alternatives with an A N Other category that people can use to put in their own suggestion.👍 |
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Post by MungO on Jan 31, 2021 14:51:24 GMT
Some people here seem to have very short memories. Ling has done a decent job. When he come in we hardly had a team... He brought players in. He brought Justin Edinburgh in. We stabilised and then promoted. We stayed up and are currently midtable in league two with a decent squad as people have said the strongest team in league two or one of. He has had to deal with the death of our manager and look sensitively for another. Now we have covid. Give the guy a break. I don't see other dof having to deal with that and still progress on the field. As for Ross I don't think he is the right man for the job. I have always said that but put some names out there who would you want.... I asked before and just got the usual cast the net and see who applies but it doesn't really work like that in football. Name names... Who would people want realistically. I have no real issue with Ling being DoF. No doubts about it we are making decent signings and nobody can really argue that in each transfer window we make progress. Including this one. I don't think we should have signed Ling Jnr. I've said before and I'll say it again, I don't mind him as a player and think he's as steady as can be for this division. But having your Dad at the club just adds a layer of complexity that we'd be better of without. And as for Ross I agree with you that he wasn't what we needed from day one. Never was, never will be. But the way how it's been handled by Ling who has hyped him up, talked him into it, give us reasons why he didn't want it, then want it, tells us he is amazing, and all the other nonsense just again adds another thing for people like me, you, this forum, that forum, twitter, etc to batter the club with when things aren't going right. Unfortunately while Ling Snr is in post, anything with Ross or Ling Jnr will be picked up on. Everything. Good, bad, contracts, selection, everything. Last season, this season, next season. It isn't fair on all 3 of them to be scrutinised in such a way but they will be. |
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Post by MungO on Jan 31, 2021 15:08:51 GMT
I asked before and just got the usual cast the net and see who applies but it doesn't really work like that in football. Name names... Who would people want realistically. Well this is the crux of it. This is the sticking point that none of us can fathom. The ultimate conundrum. We have the best owners in my opinion in the Football League. We have the best CEO in Danny Macklin. We have, and this will be controversial, the best DoF in Martin Ling, who has strengthened us in every window. We have the best streaming / media team in the division. We're looking into getting a playing surface that is used by Premier League teams. We're buying players consistently from higher divisions. But then you ask why we can't get an experienced manager and we're told in no uncertain terms that we aren't attractive to experienced managers. It is totally at odds to everything else at the club where we're shopping from the top levels. I'm not disputing that it will cost more money. A fair whack I can imagine but I'm not an idiot. If Turley, Dayton and Dennis were to leave are you telling me that collectively their salaries couldn't find a manager*. Especially from next season where players salaries will be drastically reduced but managers aren't. What we're doing is the equivalent of putting an Uber Driver in charge of a Formula One car. *Last Delloitte report from April 2020 had an average League Two managers salary as £80k and a League One at £150k |
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Post by MungO on Jan 31, 2021 15:11:49 GMT
Or to cut a long story short I'd rather blow the budget on a decent manager with average players than have a rubbish manager with top players.
The former will over time consistently perform better than the latter.
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Post by dohnut on Jan 31, 2021 15:36:44 GMT
And no I'm not saying Ross is a fool. Not at all. Go back and read it if that is what you think. I agree. Nobody is calling Ross a fool. We acknowledge his skills as a coach and his dedication to the club. I personally would love him to do well. He is one of us, a fan. And importantly he seems to be a decent bloke. Despite him doing a job, that he was adamant he never wanted throughout his entire career, he is being given quite rightly every chance to succeed and them some. The results of that opportunity are mixed. Points, ok. Win rate, acceptable, lose rate not acceptable, performances in the main very poor. His responses when we do badly are becoming a cause for concern. The stress is taking its toll. His last interview a worry. Lost the plot, before that lame excuses about us all having bad days. But he will get this season, probably next one too as we rebuild. So best we can do is hope things improve. You never know, Tuesday may be a new start. Would be nice. |
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Post by dennisrofe on Jan 31, 2021 15:47:17 GMT
I'm going back to the part about Ross being a 'good coach' and I'd like a podcast or someone in touch with the club to put this in as a question. Ross was appointed on the strength of being a good coach. But what does that actually mean? Without being patronising what does a good coach do? Because at the moment I see no style of play, no tactic, no players improving, no motivation, nobody seems to be up for the fight, there's a lack of effort, there's no cohesion, no order, and no real plan to change things around. And that hasn't been for the last two defeats, it's been all season and last season too. So is Ross a good coach? I'm looking on this forum, the other forum, getting texts all saying that enough is enough. So are we all wrong? What is it that 99% of us can't see? What would a bad coach be like? I dont get all this talk about Ross being such a brilliant coach, where is the proof of all that ?
As a manager, where is the sparkle, motivational skills and on the spot decision making to change tactics around to change the course of a game.......sorry it is just not there and never will be !
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Post by dennisrofe on Jan 31, 2021 15:55:17 GMT
Not sure I would agree with your contention that Ross is “ clueless” tbh. He is simply not the right man to be at the helm. There’s no shame in that, his qualities are better suited to the technical aspects of coaching. He doesn’t have the charisma or force of personality to impose himself on a group of players and get them all pulling in the same direction. I also wouldn’t pile all of the blame on Ling. The appointment of Davis - on paper- was a sound one. The club was emerging from a state of chaos, time was short and Davis had a long career in lower league football as both a player ( 450 odd games) and manager ( 14 seasons at Nantwich & Crewe) before joining us. OK, it didn’t work but the thinking was right. After Edinburgh ( the obvious success) , things again not surprisingly were quite chaotic. The appointment of Ross on an interim basis was understandable but should have been accompanied by some proactivity in respect of searching for a permanent replacement. Instead we had to wait for Embleton himself to walk away from the job before the infamous Board sanctioned “ process” got underway and effectively excluded anyone who had multiple previous jobs or might have wanted to bring in their own coaching staff. As a result we emerged with Carl Fletcher as a “ clear winner” six long weeks later. 29 days after that he was gone amidst a flurry of accusations about disgruntled staff and players. To reappoint Embleton on a permanent basis subsequently was a huge collective failure of both the Board and DoF and one which continues to hold the club back imho. Bullseye comment, yes so true and says it all !
''He doesn’t have the charisma or force of personality to impose himself on a group of players and get them all pulling in the same direction.''
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