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Post by MungO on Aug 1, 2024 19:04:00 GMT
That sprint at the end will be iconic footage
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Post by MungO on Aug 1, 2024 19:04:28 GMT
And as for the French swimmer Marchand.. different class
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Post by MungO on Aug 1, 2024 19:55:34 GMT
All over for Andy Murray now
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Post by brentwoodo on Aug 1, 2024 23:02:24 GMT
Leytonstone’s Beth Shriever was amazing in the BMX heats. Seconds above any of her competitors and unbelievable to watch . Let’s hope she’s an Orient fan.
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Post by dohnut on Aug 2, 2024 7:32:42 GMT
All over for Andy Murray now It is and to be honest unlikely he would bring back a medal. Two minds over this, for sure he deserves a good send off after a fantastic career and a credit to Scotland. The other side is that having already enjoyed Olympics and considerable success he took a place from someone else. But anyway, well done Andy and thanks for some great moments. Enjoy your retirement. |
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Post by arrgee on Aug 2, 2024 13:45:18 GMT
Blokes beating up women. Ridiculous.
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Post by brentwoodo on Aug 2, 2024 13:45:55 GMT
And it’s three more 🥇GOLD medals for us today. In trampolining, rowing and show jumping. Team GB are now third in the medal table!
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Post by brentwoodo on Aug 2, 2024 13:48:30 GMT
All over for Andy Murray now It is and to be honest unlikely he would bring back a medal. Two minds over this, for sure he deserves a good send off after a fantastic career and a credit to Scotland. The other side is that having already enjoyed Olympics and considerable success he took a place from someone else. But anyway, well done Andy and thanks for some great moments. Enjoy your retirement. Great tweet from Andy Murray yesterday.  |
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Post by dohnut on Aug 2, 2024 14:05:29 GMT
Blokes beating up women. Ridiculous. Absolute joke. |
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Post by bigron on Aug 3, 2024 9:42:18 GMT
Gold and bronze in the rowing this morning 👍
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Post by eca on Aug 3, 2024 10:45:54 GMT
Australia are going well
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2024 11:42:02 GMT
Blokes beating up women. Ridiculous. Absolute joke. Unsurprising that it's not true then. |
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Post by brentwoodo on Aug 3, 2024 13:12:16 GMT
10 Gold, 10 Silver and 10 Bronze so far. With athletics and cycling still to come.
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Post by dohnut on Aug 3, 2024 15:00:51 GMT
Unsurprising that it's not true then. Interesting situation when the details become clear. Not convinced it’s a situation that is fair on the other boxers. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2024 9:58:19 GMT
Unsurprising that it's not true then. Interesting situation when the details become clear. Not convinced it’s a situation that is fair on the other boxers. Why? Both boxers fight in their appropriate weight categories. Maybe they have some genetic advantages, but that's unavoidable in competitive sport. Maybe boxers shouldn't only be matched against opponents of similar weight but who also produce the same amount of testosterone? (And same height, same predisposition towards injuries, etc?) Both boxers participated in the previous Olympics without incident. Both were beaten by female competitors who've never had their gender brought into question. Both have lost roughly a fifth of their fights. The Taiwanese one has never won a bout by KO. So how big an advantage do they have? |
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Post by dohnut on Aug 4, 2024 10:38:03 GMT
Interesting situation when the details become clear. Not convinced it’s a situation that is fair on the other boxers. Why? Both boxers fight in their appropriate weight categories. Maybe they have some genetic advantages, but that's unavoidable in competitive sport. Maybe boxers shouldn't only be matched against opponents of similar weight but who also produce the same amount of testosterone? (And same height, same predisposition towards injuries, etc?) Both boxers participated in the previous Olympics without incident. Both were beaten by female competitors who've never had their gender brought into question. Both have lost roughly a fifth of their fights. The Taiwanese one has never won a bout by KO. So how big an advantage do they have? The point is we don’t know. The XY chromosome denotes a boy. XX a girl. XY affects development. So I don’t know whether that constitutes an unfair advantage. That other athletes have not won makes no difference, that these things have not been picked up in the past makes no difference. The question that needs to be answered is whether sport recognises people with this condition as male or female. At the moment it’s seems a mixed bag. Not allowed in some boxing tournaments, allowed in the Olympics. Clarity is needed. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2024 12:33:50 GMT
Why? Both boxers fight in their appropriate weight categories. Maybe they have some genetic advantages, but that's unavoidable in competitive sport. Maybe boxers shouldn't only be matched against opponents of similar weight but who also produce the same amount of testosterone? (And same height, same predisposition towards injuries, etc?) Both boxers participated in the previous Olympics without incident. Both were beaten by female competitors who've never had their gender brought into question. Both have lost roughly a fifth of their fights. The Taiwanese one has never won a bout by KO. So how big an advantage do they have? The point is we don’t know. The XY chromosome denotes a boy. XX a girl. XY affects development. So I don’t know whether that constitutes an unfair advantage. That other athletes have not won makes no difference, that these things have not been picked up in the past makes no difference. The question that needs to be answered is whether sport recognises people with this condition as male or female. At the moment it’s seems a mixed bag. Not allowed in some boxing tournaments, allowed in the Olympics. Clarity is needed. OK, let's look at some things we do know:
Both women have passed gender eligibility tests. So what do we know about the one they failed? - It was conducted by the IBA, a Russian-led organisation stripped of its Olympic status for alleged corruption and suspect refereeing.
- The IBA has refused to release any details about the results or the methodology of the tests. All they have said is that XY chromosomes were detected. (Whether this is true or not, I know from personal experience that it's possible for females to have XY chromosomes. My wife has them as the result of a stem-cell transplant.)
- Khelif "failed" her test following a victory over a Russian boxer who was undefeated at the time, thus voiding the result.
In other words, a nation with a long history of cheating in international sporting events had a strong motive for disqualifying a fighter in a competition it had complete control over and did so via a test for which they refused to reveal the methodology or results. It's not the IOC that isn't providing clarity here.
Two other points: - I don't think it "makes no difference" that these fighters have been beaten multiple times by other women, at least insofar as their participation is supposedly dangerous. It shows there are more dangerous fighters whose eligibility isn't being questioned.
- Anyone accusing Khelif specifically of being transgender (not that you have, but others continue to do so) needs a good explanation as to why a conservative Islamic state would choose to be represented by a transwoman. It doesn't make sense to me.
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Post by watfordo on Aug 4, 2024 12:43:59 GMT
The point is we don’t know. The XY chromosome denotes a boy. XX a girl. XY affects development. So I don’t know whether that constitutes an unfair advantage. That other athletes have not won makes no difference, that these things have not been picked up in the past makes no difference. The question that needs to be answered is whether sport recognises people with this condition as male or female. At the moment it’s seems a mixed bag. Not allowed in some boxing tournaments, allowed in the Olympics. Clarity is needed. OK, let's look at some things we do know:
Both women have passed gender eligibility tests. So what do we know about the one they failed? - It was conducted by the IBA, a Russian-led organisation stripped of its Olympic status for alleged corruption and suspect refereeing.
- The IBA has refused to release any details about the results or the methodology of the tests. All they have said is that XY chromosomes were detected. (Whether this is true or not, I know from personal experience that it's possible for females to have XY chromosomes. My wife has them as the result of a stem-cell transplant.)
- Khelif "failed" her test following a victory over a Russian boxer who was undefeated at the time, thus voiding the result.
In other words, a nation with a long history of cheating in international sporting events had a strong motive for disqualifying a fighter in a competition it had complete control over and did so via a test for which they refused to reveal the methodology or results. It's not the IOC that isn't providing clarity here.
Two other points: - I don't think it "makes no difference" that these fighters have been beaten multiple times by other women, at least insofar as their participation is supposedly dangerous. It shows there are more dangerous fighters whose eligibility isn't being questioned.
- Anyone accusing Khelif specifically of being transgender (not that you have, but others continue to do so) needs a good explanation as to why a conservative Islamic state would choose to be represented by a transwoman. It doesn't make sense to me.
Nailed it. Its just red meat for the proles. |
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Post by dohnut on Aug 4, 2024 14:59:33 GMT
The point is we don’t know. The XY chromosome denotes a boy. XX a girl. XY affects development. So I don’t know whether that constitutes an unfair advantage. That other athletes have not won makes no difference, that these things have not been picked up in the past makes no difference. The question that needs to be answered is whether sport recognises people with this condition as male or female. At the moment it’s seems a mixed bag. Not allowed in some boxing tournaments, allowed in the Olympics. Clarity is needed. OK, let's look at some things we do know:
Both women have passed gender eligibility tests. So what do we know about the one they failed? - It was conducted by the IBA, a Russian-led organisation stripped of its Olympic status for alleged corruption and suspect refereeing.
- The IBA has refused to release any details about the results or the methodology of the tests. All they have said is that XY chromosomes were detected. (Whether this is true or not, I know from personal experience that it's possible for females to have XY chromosomes. My wife has them as the result of a stem-cell transplant.)
- Khelif "failed" her test following a victory over a Russian boxer who was undefeated at the time, thus voiding the result.
In other words, a nation with a long history of cheating in international sporting events had a strong motive for disqualifying a fighter in a competition it had complete control over and did so via a test for which they refused to reveal the methodology or results. It's not the IOC that isn't providing clarity here.
Two other points: - I don't think it "makes no difference" that these fighters have been beaten multiple times by other women, at least insofar as their participation is supposedly dangerous. It shows there are more dangerous fighters whose eligibility isn't being questioned.
- Anyone accusing Khelif specifically of being transgender (not that you have, but others continue to do so) needs a good explanation as to why a conservative Islamic state would choose to be represented by a transwoman. It doesn't make sense to me.
I think you are reading objections where none exist. Certainly not a transgender issue which this is clearly not. What there is, is a clear division between what the International Boxing Association consider and what the International Olympic Committee consider as fair. One of these organisations needs to rethink its position because if it does not, this type of situation will continue. Irrespective of the IBA situation as you have highlighted, this is something that needs clarification once and for all. This is not the first time this has come up, had to google her name as I could not recall it, but I recall the furore at the time. Semenya and her case against not the IBA but the IAAF, or World Athletics as it’s now known. It was interesting to re-read all the stuff that went on at the time, the court fights and final conclusions, which are still to be fully done. The point being that if we are to avoid further issues, this needs to be clarified now. Having already won a medal, the cloud surrounding this will be talked about for a long time and diminish her achievement in the eyes of many. High testosterone levels and male chromosomes gives her an advantage. The authorities need to decided whether that is a fair or unfair advantage. World Athletics have applied conditions as they feel the advantage is not fair. Its an issue that needs resolving for the sake of everyone involved. Good discussion 👍 |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2024 16:13:33 GMT
The IOC has been clear on this. The IBA has not. If you want clarification, ignore what the IBA has to say until they substantiate their claims. Until they do there is no reason to believe the cases of Khelif and Yu-Ting are equivalent to the Caster Semenya case. Yes, there are gender issues in sport that need further consideration, but do Khelif and Yu-Ting have anything to do with that? At the moment there's no serious evidence to suggest that they might be.
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